Day hike gone bad

[Lawnboy]

My sister in law was working with a biologist down in Denali on a bear study project. The guy was trying to see how effective paint balls were in stopping bears. I think they found that once the bears were shot they would look down at the color splotch and freak out and take off running. I never did think that was a wise study I guess someone has to do those kind of studies.
I like the sounds of using lead better than spray but I think the reality is that I couldn't keep it together enough to hit the bear with lead. Spray might be my best bet. Hope I don't have to find out.

 

[mightyhunter]

icb 12,

I lived in North Idaho for 26 years and here in NW Wyoming for the past 11. Both were included in grizzly bear recovery areas. I don't doubt your experience for a minute. Just thought I would pull your chain back. I totally agree that bear spray and lead are a poor substitute for common sense and awareness. Anyone who doesn't believe that is asking for trouble. You can never be too careful.

The wolf and grizzly bear thing has become a real source of debate and contention down here. There are people in the area that don't like having the federal government, including the judiciary, dictating what should be happening with game management. There are others (hunters) that just don't like to see the ungulate populations drop like a rock. There are others who are just plain afraid of these critters. Maybe this isn't a big deal for someone living in Alaska. If you don't like to hear the complaining about it, "Good Grief" just ignore the posts on the subject.

 

[sweetnectar]

So can someone please help me understand why the bear was not killed or placed in prison? The hiker was unarmed and had no prior convictions or warrants. He didn't have a history of bear abuse or a personal vendetta against this bear. How do they know the bear didn't premeditate the attack? How do they know the bear is acted in self defence or is it even claiming self defence? Did someone interview the bear? Are we seriously going to put an animal above that of a human life? Unbelievable!

 

[Ben Lamb]

As an archery hunter in Wyoming, you are now allowed to carry a firearm.

In 2004 or 2005, the Legislature passed a law that allows for carrying a firearm while archery hunting. So you can technically carry a 300 WSM while archery hunting in WY.

From the Game and Fish Website:

Q. Can I carry a handgun while archery hunting?

A. Yes. An archery hunter may possess a firearm during a special archery or limited quota archery only hunting season. Firearms may not be used to take big game during an archery only season, however.

As for youir earlier post, I would suggest getting in touch with Mark Bruscino. I've known Mark for close to a decade and he's the real deal. He's in Cody, and is usually happy to talk with folks who live in occupied bear habitat. The work he's done in communities like Wapiti, and with livestock producers is highly regardedl around the Northern Rockies.

 

[Ben Lamb]

So can someone please help me understand why the bear was not killed or placed in prison? The hiker was unarmed and had no prior convictions or warrants. He didn't have a history of bear abuse or a personal vendetta against this bear. How do they know the bear didn't premeditate the attack? How do they know the bear is acted in self defence or is it even claiming self defence? Did someone interview the bear? Are we seriously going to put an animal above that of a human life? Unbelievable!

The glove didn't fit.

 

[sweetnectar]

OK a more serious question. Why cut throat and not rainbows, browns, or brook trout etc. I know the native and non native stories and all that. But when it comes to bears eating food does it matter so much in the Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming areas as to the type of fish or is it simply the availability?

 

[belly-deep]

Here's a pretty interesting stat on fatal bear attacks in North America. My brother in Alaska always comments on how we in the lower states seem to have more fatalities. It looks like he is right as far as in the years 2000 + but Alaska has had plenty in the decades prior. Don't know if it is due to numbers of people or what. Looks like Black Bears are also the one's to really watch out for.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America

Really? Black bears are the ones to watch out for? When was the last time you heard of a bb mauling in MT? When was the last time you heard of a griz mauling in MT?

I don't know about you, but I'm watching out for the griz

 

[Lawnboy]

I said to look out for them also regarding BB. I'm looking out for Griz. Don't get me wrong but look at the fatality stats on that link and BB are at 60 deaths and Griz at 64. There are way more BB than griz in this country. Just makes me think you can't brush off the fact that it's only a BB.

You are right though. Montana has no known BB fatalities.

 

[----]

The black bear thing is just a sample size issue. There's 400 black bears for ever grizzly in the lower states. If you look at the stats that way, I bet whitetail are more dangerous than grizzlies.

 

[Lawnboy]

, I bet whitetail are more dangerous than grizzlies.

What kind of whitetails are you hunting? I know what you're saying. It's probably the same reason there are more attacks in the lower 48 than up north. Just the shear numbers of people being out might be greater down here. Just a guess though

 

[Ben Lamb]

OK a more serious question. Why cut throat and not rainbows, browns, or brook trout etc. I know the native and non native stories and all that. But when it comes to bears eating food does it matter so much in the Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming areas as to the type of fish or is it simply the availability?

It's a double edged sword from a legal and conservation standpoint.

Bears evolved eating cutthroat trout, not brookies or rainbows (in the NRM, other than redbands in ID and NWMT). For the Yellowstone population, it's more of a practical matter: Yellowstone lake doesn't have a rainbow, etc, population and the illegally planted Lakers have decimated the YCT populations.

Secondly, the timing of the food matters in that spring spawning runs used to be a major food source for grizz. Browns and Brookies are fall spawners, and given the current management scenarios, Rainbows will not be planted to fill the niche from Cutthroat. Besides, I'm not sure that they would function the same in traditional cutthroat habitats. I'm not a fisheries guy so hopefully someone can be clearer on this than I.

Rainbows won't be introduced in to YNP based on the current fisheries management plan that calls for focusing on increasing native species (IIRC). WY is undergoing some pretty substantial conservation efforts for YCT as well.

Yellowstone Cutthroat have been petitioned for listing under the Endangered Species Act. The USFWS has decided that listing is inappropriate at this time due to the conservation efforts, primarily within YNP and WY. They have been eliminated from about 90-95% of their historic range, and because of that, they are a species of concern in WY and MT, and so their conservation is of great concern beyond being a food source for Grizz.

 

[onpoint]

My wife and I spent our 26th anniversary in the park on the day of the fatality, in fact, we stood at the Wapiti Lake trailhead (where the deal took place) at about 11am, surrounded by about a thousand other tourons. Lotsa inexperienced and naive folks mixing with a critter like a G Bear will inevitably sooner or later lead to an incident.....ditto what Drathaar said a while back in this thread. I have a love hate relationship with these bastards, I think it's pretty damn wonderful that grizzlies have experienced the population comeback that they have.....I also don't wanna be the subject of a newspaper/TV headline. I spend a LOT of time in the sticks traipsing around and sleeping on the ground separated from claws and teeth by a millisomething of nylon. Outside the park, guns and spray go with me, hopefully these tools will never come out of their holsters..... I consider it a great privilege to live/play/work in a place like SW MT....but I also am fully aware of the realities that go with it. Bazillions of other visitors (and clueless "locals") don't realize this reality....*%$# happens - regardless of policies and politics. Big news makes for big discussion....
By the way...it is still frozen and snow covered in the Beartooths....pretty cool up there.

 

[mightyhunter]

Ben Lamb,

I checked a couple of internet sources on the Yellowstone Cutthroat Trout decline. The sources I read blamed both the lake trout and also the damage done to many of the spawning streams. There seems to be a mix of opinion on the source of the lake trout. Some said a recent illegal introduction and some suggested that they had migrated from Lewis Lake/Shoshone Lake. I think the government stocked the lake trout in that system many years ago. I note that lake trout also exist in Jackson Lake, Priest Lake, Palisades Reservoir and some others without all the negative damage to the native cutthroat trout. They are gill netting in Yellowstone Lake and aggressively attacking the problem. However, the articles indicated that they had little hope for eliminating the lake trout. I wondered if the problem might be better solved by a Yellowstone Cutthroat Trout hatchery program and by improving the spawning beds on the damaged streams.

In reading one of the articles it stated that fisheries biologists likened the removal of non-native lake trout as "weed control" of a non-native invasive species. It said a mature lake trout eats about 50 cutthroats a year. This kind of reminded me of the wolf program and the introduction of the wolf that removes 20-30 elk a year from the system. One introduction is praised (wolf) and the other is condemned (lake trout). I see a little irony in that. Maybe man should just quit screwing with the ecosystem.

 

[mightyhunter]

Frazier Boutelle, while the superintendent of YNP, planted lake trout in Lewis Lake and Shoshone Lake in 1890. The lake trout came from Lake Michigan. They either migrated into Yellowstone Lake or the bucket brigades brought them in. Not much of a trip either way. Again, maybe man should just quit screwing with the ecosystem.

 

[belly-deep]

The black bear thing is just a sample size issue. There's 400 black bears for ever grizzly in the lower states. If you look at the stats that way, I bet whitetail are more dangerous than grizzlies.

Its not unlike how labs are responsible for more dog bites nation wide. Its saturation, plain and simple.

 

['Ike']

I was always told 'Bear Spray' just added spice to their meal...

 

[Hem]

Here we go again.....easy to mock grizz mauling prevention when you don't even live with the dang things.Chances are that other Californian would still be alive if they practiced a little common sense.(though I still give that couple credit for being part of the 1% who actually get out of their car and walk somewhere in Yellowstone other than on a boardwalk).

 

[Carrion Carrier]

Grizzlies are SO rare. If you don't want to deal with them go anywhere else!

 

[mdunc8]

and some suggested that they had migrated from Lewis Lake/Shoshone Lake.

That sounds like a reasonable explanation

 

[sweetnectar]

OK now I'm wondering about the let her burn policies on fish. Once a landscape gets toasted do you then get all this silting that wipes out fisheries? Mayby the letting it burn policy toasts some grizz as well and as someone mentioned the white pine. I don't know if there is even a good answer when more a more factors get thrown in.
One thing I know, is that I feel a bit undergunned when it comes to grizz. Don't get me wrong I love a good western with a shoot out in the street but everyone involved knows the attack is comming. With grizz we don't have our coats pulled back away from our hog leg six shooters all the time and then out of know where it is on.