“Custom” rifle build

[VikingsGuy]

Two years ago.

Ahhh, thought it may have been further back, you did get a good deal - lowest price online now is looking like just above $900.

 

[Don Fischer]

I'm in a crap mood today so I'll apologize first. Has he considered a factory Rem 700 in 30-06! We are only talking 800yds max and Wimbledon has been won with service rifles in 30-06! Maybe even 308. You cannot build a custom rifle in any cartridge for shooting to 800 yds if you lack the ability in the first place. If you don't lack the ability, you don't need to ask the question to begin with!

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Ahhh, thought it may have been further back, you did get a good deal - lowest price online now is looking like just above $900.

Yeah, I got a pretty hefty discount on it. A buddy of mine bought a 700 AWR with his discount and is equally as happy with it. Personally, I'd spend the money on one of these unless the OP just wants a custom gun. I'd take the extra money and go elk hunting with it.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Yeah, I got a pretty hefty discount on it. A buddy of mine bought a 700 AWR with his discount and is equally as happy with it. Personally, I'd spend the money on one of these unless the OP just wants a custom gun. I'd take the extra money and go elk hunting with it.

Lots of good price points on the journey to custom. A Howa1500 at $500, a Tikka at $650, A Begara B14 at $750, that Rem Mountain SS at $900, Begara Premier and other good options around $1500. But the “every detail just the way you want it” allure of a true custom in the $3k range will eventual catch up with me.

 

[mtmuley]

The best price point on the journey to a custom I saw was 397 bucks. mtmuley

 

[ImBillT]

I don’t know that I’d bother having a Rem 700 trued. Lap the lugs, have the smith that barrels it square the face of the receiver, and install a thick lug. You start putting money into having it trued and you get pretty close to the price of a custom action and the customs are well worth the extra. If you ever sell it, a trued Rem 700 is worth about what an untouched one is worth. The new ones are pretty good anyway.

Rem 700 or custom action
Krieger barrel(I have my reasons)
Jewel or Trigger Tech trigger
McMillan or Manners stock

I’d lean toward a 7mm over a 30cal for bullet selection purposes, but .30’s are great. I’d also go smaller like a .280Rem or .280AI, but if you’re gonna go with a magnum, the 7mag and 300Win are big enough. The Noslers are just very expensive ways to wear out a barrel even faster. The 30 Nosler is more reasonable than the 28 Nosler. The 7mag was already bigger than it ever needed to be. Why anyone wanting to hotrod a 7mm would do anything other than a 7mag is beyond me, except perhaps just to be different. I get that. I like some of my cartridges just because not everyone else has one.

As mentioned, a Tikka or Howa could get you mighty close at 30% the cost. I get my gun smithing work done at no charge and I buy used McMillan stocks when they pop up at stupid prices. If I was paying a smith, waiting in line, and paying retail for a stock, you can bet I’d own more factory guns.

Probably the most important thing to rifle accuracy is being chambered properly. Tikka, Sako, CZ, Nosler and maybe Cooper, tend to build guns that have that base covered.

 

[mtmuley]

A trued 700 stainless with a .532 bolt face is 450 bucks. Any customs close? mtmuley

 

[Fire_9]

I'm in a crap mood today so I'll apologize first. Has he considered a factory Rem 700 in 30-06! We are only talking 800yds max and Wimbledon has been won with service rifles in 30-06! Maybe even 308. You cannot build a custom rifle in any cartridge for shooting to 800 yds if you lack the ability in the first place. If you don't lack the ability, you don't need to ask the question to begin with!

Seems like you’re always in a crap mood when you comment on posts like these...

 

[ImBillT]

A trued 700 stainless with a .532 bolt face is 450 bucks. Any customs close? mtmuley

Sounds like a good deal. Where you getting that, who is doing the work, what work is included in the trueing?

It’s been a decade or more since I bothered pricing a custom action. At the time, benchrest shooters around here were paying $400+ to have an action “blue printed”, the donor action was around $300 just like today(Remington has done an excellent job of keeping the base price down over the years) and custom actions were $900-$1500. Resale on the “blue printed” Remington was $300. Resale on the custom was $900-$1500. Having it in your hand was worth paying new retail to avoid the shipping/FFL transfer and the wait. I’d pay $900 for a custom before I’d pay $700 for a “blue printed” Remington.

At $450 the game changes. I’d do that in heartbeat.

 

[HandgunHunter]

For what it’s worth here’s my 2 cents.

a trued Remington and a custom action will more than likely yield the same results as far as accuracy.

Truing an action is a general term....each gunsmith has a different level/degree of truing they do....and some do charge a ridiculous price to do it.
Doesn’t take a whole lot of time to true the locking lugs, the face, true the threads, and true the bolt lugs and face.

99% of what I build is handguns and these bolt action Specialty pistols...I only do a handful of rifles a year...we didn’t have the option for custom actions for quite some time in the specialty pistol world..I can promise you a trued action Will do just fine.
Just a picture of a couple custom specialty pistols Incase someone didn’t know what I was talking about.

 

[mtmuley]

https://northlandshooterssupply.com/actions/remington/ Pretty good deal. mtmuley

 

[ImBillT]

I do wanna be clear, a “trued” Remington action will shoot great. In terms of accuracy it will probably equal any custom action ever made. A lot of untouched 700 actions will come close.

The differences are going to be elsewhere. Ever work a Remington bolt and compare it to a Howa? Ever pull a bolt handle off a Remington? I have. You won’t do that with a one-piece bolt. The smith above did not include bushing the firing pin, sleeving the bolt, installing a lighter firing pin and/or heavier spring. Those things aren’t necessary by any means, but they are commonly done. A lot of custom actions are lighter if that’s important. Different port and bolt configurations have their place. Remington bolts are pretty soft. It’s easy to gall the locking lugs and cocking ramp if you don’t keep them lubed. You avoid that on a lot of customs as well.

In no way shape or form am I saying that a 700 action won’t shoot. I own a lot of them, and most have had very little work done to the action itself. My point was simply that if the price begins approaching the price a custom action, I would go the custom route. I was also pointing out that an almost completely stock 700 action is still an excellent starting point.

 

[Fire_9]

I wouldn’t really call that a ‘trued’ action but it’s better than a stock action...

 

[ImBillT]

https://northlandshooterssupply.com/actions/remington/ Pretty good deal. mtmuley

It’s not a bad price, but if you’ll notice, what they called “trued” was squaring the receiver and lapping the lugs. Those two things were recommended in my post suggesting that truing work was probably best kept to a minimum unless going full custom. I’m not sure what a smith would charge to square the receiver while barreling. Nor do I know what lug lapping usually goes for.

Common procedures for “blue printing” an action for a bench rest shooter were

Truing the OD if the action.

Drill and tap scope mount holes oversize to correct alignment.

Ream action bore

Sleeve bolt to tightly fit the new action bore

Square bolt lugs

Square action lugs

Lap lugs

Recut and square action threads

Square action face

Bush firing pin

Time the bolt

And after all this you couldn’t use factory base screws, and take-off barrels from other guns would have threads that were loose. The you would fit a custom lug, because there is no point in having a square action face an out of square factory recoil lug. All that adds up to a custom action being not much more expensive but better and worth more if you resold it.

 

[mtmuley]

Thanks Bill. See ya. mtmuley

 

[HandgunHunter]

It’s not a bad price, but if you’ll notice, what they called “trued” was squaring the receiver and lapping the lugs. Those two things were recommended in my post suggesting that truing work was probably best kept to a minimum unless going full custom. I’m not sure what a smith would charge to square the receiver while barreling. Nor do I know what lug lapping usually goes for.

in my eyes you shouldn’t fit a barrel without squaring the face of any action.

while it’s set up to do that you may as well square the lugs in the action. Another quick set up and you can square the bolt lugs.

bushing a firing pin hole takes about another 30 min.

If I took the time to set and action and bolt up perfectly true and cut the engagement surfaces...I wouldn’t also lap them....

all lugs should be kept greased on all actions....if you are smearing bolt lugs you are more than likely running hot.

ripping off bolt handles.....there can be a lot of causes of that....but that generally doesn’t happen either.

these methods seem to work reasonably well on the specialty pistols....which are just short rifles..

 

[ImBillT]

in my eyes you shouldn’t fit a barrel without squaring the face of any action.

while it’s set up to do that you may as well square the lugs in the action. Another quick set up and you can square the bolt lugs.

bushing a firing pin hole takes about another 30 min.

If I took the time to set and action and bolt up perfectly true and cut the engagement surfaces...I wouldn’t also lap them....

all lugs should be kept greased on all actions....if you are smearing boot lugs you are more than likely running hot.

ripping off bolt handles.....there can be a lot of causes of that....but that generally doesn’t happen either.

these methods seem to work reasonably well on the specialty pistols....which are just short rifles..
View attachment 128820View attachment 128821

I think you’re misunderstanding me. I’m not telling you they don’t work well. I literally suggested, after a “trued” 700 action was recommended, that I would only recommend having the gunsmith who installed the barrel square the action face while he was at it, fit a custom recoil lug, and lap the bolt lugs. That’s good for 99% of what you get out of all the truing mess, and it’s gotta be 50% or less of the cost. That’s all that’s been done to any of my current 700 actions and they shoot great. That’s exactly what I recommended. I simply added that I wouldn’t go any further with it before going full custom instead.

These pics don’t invalidate what you said, they confirm it. These are from a .308Win and .223AI. All shot with 6X scopes at 100yds. Both 700 actions had nothing done other than squaring the receiver face and lapping the lugs. They even used factory recoil lugs that had been squared. If you go beyond those simple and cheap improvements, you gain very little if anything.

 

[ImBillT]

Thanks Bill. See ya. mtmuley

Anytime my friend.

 

[antelopedundee]

It’s not a bad price, but if you’ll notice, what they called “trued” was squaring the receiver and lapping the lugs. Those two things were recommended in my post suggesting that truing work was probably best kept to a minimum unless going full custom. I’m not sure what a smith would charge to square the receiver while barreling. Nor do I know what lug lapping usually goes for.

Common procedures for “blue printing” an action for a bench rest shooter were

Truing the OD if the action.

Drill and tap scope mount holes oversize to correct alignment.

Ream action bore

Sleeve bolt to tightly fit the new action bore

Square bolt lugs

Square action lugs

Lap lugs

Recut and square action threads

Square action face

Bush firing pin

Time the bolt

And after all this you couldn’t use factory base screws, and take-off barrels from other guns would have threads that were loose. The you would fit a custom lug, because there is no point in having a square action face an out of square factory recoil lug. All that adds up to a custom action being not much more expensive but better and worth more if you resold it.

At what point does truing/blueprinting become customizing?

 

[ImBillT]

At what point does truing/blueprinting become customizing?

Uhmmm....Never? What are you calling customizing? I guess almost anything you do is “customizing”. That’s not what I mean when I refer to a “custom action”. Are you comparing it to “custom” action companies? Trueing/blue printing, is just correcting any manufacturing errors that may have occurred. It does not fundamentally change the design of the action or bolt. You might consider reaming the bolt bore and sleeving the bolt a design change because you’re decreasing the tolerance below what was designed in. A custom action from Surgeon, Defiance, Stiller, Kelbly’s etc. is a different action all together. Even in their 700 “clones” you get a better bolt setup. Most of those actions, even when based on a Remington 700, have actual design changes that improve things.

I’m a big fan of Remington 700’s. I just wouldn’t spend much trying to improve the action before I’d go with a custom action. First of all, they’re fairly good as is. As mentioned, lap the lugs, have the smith square the face when he barrels it. I don’t know what a smith charges for that, might add less than $50 to the barrel work. I wouldn’t do much more than $200 extra work to a 700 action before I’d just get a custom action. A Defiance Tenacity has an MSRP of $885. It’s better than any “blue printed” Remington 700. The two might be equally accurate, but action is stainless, the bolt is far better than a Remington. The recoil lug us built in and standardized, so you can swap barrels from one to another. The resale on it is going to be excellent. A Stiller can be had at an MSRP of $975, again stainless, has an anti-bind rail for the bolt, the bolt is nitrided. I’m sure there are ton of other advantages as well. My last few Remingtons have had an anti bind rail from the factory...but they don’t smooth thing out like a custom action. If you ever get a hold of a real custom action and compare it to a 700 you’ll see the value. Like I say, you can make a 700 shoot as good as any thing else on the planet. You can get really close without even doing much to it. The difference is elsewhere. There is no amount of truing/blue printing that will make a Remington 700 worth spending the same amount of money in that you would a custom action.

I’m talking about the action. Not the entire gun. I wouldn’t hesitate to put a Krieger barrel($360 plus $200+ chambering and fitting) and a McMillan or Manners stock on one. I just wouldn’t spend much trying to improve the action itself.