Colorado / private land

[DKO]

Im a bit confused on hunting regulations governing private property and private property tags. there is a small piece of private property maybe 20-40ac.that is surrounded by state forest land within a GMU the tract is mostly an open hillside with a small pocket of aspen certainly not enough land to "hold" elk or deer but they do cross through every now and again. heres the issue there were 7 guys camped and they all had private property tags? this doesnt seem right but the regs. are very vague on privatye property tags as it states nothing about tract size and tag allotment only written permission but if you look at the landowner preference it talks about 160 contigous acres and tag allotmens for enrolled tracts? so is anyone that has a out parcel entitled to private property tags not matter how big the property is and is it legal to have seven guys hunting 20ac with private property tags??? with some of them being non-residents??? seems like this is being severly abused!! anyone can buy these tags with no questions asked??

BTW they killed a smallish raghorn and were skinning it when we cam out and i noticed the private property tag, i didnt say anything at the time but I am asking because this doesnt seem right fair or legal and is an avenue for folks to easily poach animals off state land and tag them as though they were killed on private??

 

[putm2sleep]

Great story. Great questions.
1. Colorado - private land - tags and vouchures. It is criminal activity really. >>>The land owner will give the/his out-of-state hunters/friends those tags, OR they (those out-of-staters) paid the land owner a pretty penny for them and he is smiling all the way to the barn.
2. if the raghorn is a 4pt or had a brow of 5" they are fine.

 

[Jorgy]

You are mixing up a few different things that have to do with private property in Colorado.

Private Property tags - anyone can purchase these, but you can only hunt on private property. They are normally easier to get, because there is less demand for a private only tag in must GMU's

Landowner Preference - 15% of tags in a gmu are allotted to this program. This allows someone who owns 160 acres in a GMU to apply for a tag in that gmu, but I don't believe that tag is a private property tag, and it's a tag they can use anywhere in the unit, and they can sell them to people who don't even hunt on that land. gritting teeth.....trying no to get on soap box.......

So, if those "hunters" are using a private land tag and shot a raghorn on public land, call the game warden, please. Also, most units have a 4 point rule, are you in a unit that isn't?

 

[DKO]

the bull was legal i have no problem with that and i cant prove where it was killed but from what i know about the elk movement at this time and where their property is there was no way in hell it was killed on the private property!!

I understand that there is a difference between land owner preference and private property tags, thats part of the problem. private property tags are unregulated to the point of abuse. by the regs it is perfectly legal to have 100 private property tag holders on a 1 acrte tract of land! Ok thats stretching it but you get the idea!! total bullshit!

 

[sbhooper]

Welcome to Colorado! It is all about private property owners and outfitters.

 

[jlmatthew]

Welcome to Colorado! It is all about private property owners and outfitters.

I believe thats on the Welcome sign now when you cross the State line

But so true!

 

[noharleyyet]

What jorgy said....aren't some of you confusing Private land tags specific to private property only with unit wide land owner tags?

 

[Jorgy]

Welcome to Colorado! It is all about private property owners and outfitters.

Really? While I don't agree with a few things that the DOW has in place, I don't think there are a bunch of places where the average Joe can walk up to the counter and buy a over the counter tag and go on a elk hunt. I think outfitters have it way better in Wyoming and Montana for getting clients tags.

 

[DKO]

Yes what jorgy said is correct........the two are easily confused and left to interpretation and honesty, which is the problem in a nut shell.

 

[noharleyyet]

Yes what jorgy said is correct........the two are easily confused and left to interpretation and honesty, which is the problem in a nut shell.

Yes, I see what you're saying. Sorta like party hunting with a logistical twist. Were it a Samson the wardens would be swabbing DNA.

 

[Khunter]

you guys make my head hurt with wrong and mixed up terminology.

PLO, private land only tags. Anyone can apply for and draw these public draw tags. They are as the name suggests, valid only on pvt land. And are not specific to any one landowner. Get permission for free or for a fee and you are in. A landowner can of course allow as many folks as he wants.

Landowner Voucher, a voucher that entitles the bearer to exchange for a unit wide license for the exact species and season stated on the voucher. When sold, these vouchers (and the tag purchased with them) come, by law, with permission to hunt the parcels that are tied to the voucher (the qualifying land). The landowner may acquire, if drawn in the priority landowner preference draw, any number of available tags using the following formula:

"For a species that is eligible for landowner preference, up to 15% of the general quota is allocated to the landowners. Registered landowners receive a number of acreage applications based upon the number of deeded acres owned and properly registered:

160 to 639 acres = 1 application per species
640 to 1199 acres = 2 applications per species
1200 to 2399 acres = 3 applications per species
2400 to 3999 acres = 4 applications per species
4000 to 4999 acres = 5 applications per species
5000 acres or more = 6 applications per species"

So a landowner could draw a lot of landowner vouchers and if they sell them, they have to let the buyers access the land (but just the parcels tied to each voucher) for each and every day of the hunting season at the hunters preference. With no limitation to certain days or weeks of the season. Note a landowner with 50,000 acres could break up his parcels into many large blocks and get a pile of vouchers for each block of land, and thus is not limited to a max of 6 tags as the table might suggest.

I know this stuff cause a louse of a ranch manager tried to deny me my legal pvt land access entitlement this year after I bought a voucher and he, not I, got the crap end of that stick as served by CPW.

The thing to know is a landowner can sell all his vouchers to individual DIY hunters AND also lease the land to an outfitter whose hunters may have drawn limited tags on their own, or have OTC tags for a different species creating a mess of a hunt. No firm restrictions in the landowner voucher program that says you cannot let a pile of guys onto your land including and in additon to any vouchers sold. The rules say the landowner is supposed to obtain and sell a reasonable number of vouchers that would allow alhunters to have a reasonable quality hunt. But no hard and enforceable rules about that general guideline.

In DKOs case, the landowner may have owned that 20 acre piece, but if the tag was actually a product of a landowner voucher that was turned in to obtain the tag, then the landowner ABSOLUTELY had a contiguous parcel of not less than 160-640 acres for the first Landowner Voucher, and then another 600+ acres (can be noncontiguous) for each additional voucher as shown in the table I pasted from the regs. All the landowner needs is at least and only one contiguous 160 acre parcel to qualify. he could have a pile of small noncontiguous parcels and they would all count toward his qualifying acreage amount. Also, the voucher-sourced tag DKO alludes to could have been tied to a different landowner's land and the hunter could have had permission to hunt this other 20 acre parcel--tags obtained via a Landowner Voiucher are good unit wide for all public land and the qualifying private land that the voucher was drawn for, plus any other private land a guy might ge permisson to access within the applicable hunt unit(s)....Or unless DKO knows for sure he saw a tag that was obtained via a Landowner Voucher, the hunter(s) could have been hunting using public draw PLO tags, unrelated to Landowner Vouchers.

Holy smokes, way too wordy. End of semon.

In short a big mess with way too little accountability or transparency.

 

[sbhooper]

Good post, Khunter. What a Charlie Foxtrot!

 

[jlmatthew]

Just a little update, the Landowner voucher rules have changed a bit

Starting next year they will no longer be limited to 15% of the tag quota, they will get 20% west of I-25 and 25% east of I-25 of the GMU tag quota. Can we say point creep on steroids for the average Joe drawing now!

Also large ranches will no longer be limited to a 6 voucher max cap, it is now 19 voucher cap. So soon a pissing match between large and small ranches will start, so this landowner tag grab is far from over IMO.

Deer hunting is fast becoming a "every-other-year" thing. But as long as we can go to Walmart and buy a OTC Bull Elk tag, who cares

 

[DKO]

Khunter,
again you guys are correct with the voucher tags and knowing there is a difference in the tags..........

question: do the vouchers have "private land only" printed on them? ......

 

[Jorgy]

Khunter,
again you guys are correct with the voucher tags and knowing there is a difference in the tags..........

question: do the vouchers have "private land only" printed on them? ......

no they don't, they are valid for the whole gmu public or private

 

[DKO]

Wow Just called CPW in grand junction it is perfectly legal to buy private landowner tags have as many guys as you want on any piece of private property regardless of the tract size !! Also get to hunt from Sept. - Jan. To fill the tag!!

Jlmatthew wasn't far off on the welcome sign!!

 

[sbhooper]

It looks to me like game management and hunter management is rapidly giving away to politics in the DOW. I will probably not be spending any more money there.

 

[putm2sleep]

thats what ya'll say.....soon as BigFin posts a moster bull with an OTC tag and the gmu, why you will be spending the $$$$ brother.

 

[Khunter]

Khunter,
again you guys are correct with the voucher tags and knowing there is a difference in the tags..........

question: do the vouchers have "private land only" printed on them? ......

No....As noted, the tag exchanged for a voucher is valid on all public land in the unit. Sounds like you caught a look at a PLO tag, which is unrelated to a voucher or the tag one exchanges for it?

 

[sbhooper]

thats what ya'll say.....soon as BigFin posts a moster bull with an OTC tag and the gmu, why you will be spending the $$$$ brother.

Good point, but it doesn't mean much to me. I don't chase antlers much anymore. I love to hunt cows, though. I will wait and see how things progress into the future.