Easier to bitch.
Changes to MT Upland Season - Resident Priority Takes Effect This Year
- Thread starter Ben Lamb
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I think that's correct. Dug around a bit on the statute and the season is set through commission rule. Since that season date was established in 2025, and the 10 day resident priority season wasn't going into effect until 26, I'm assuming the commission didn't amend the NR Training opener but could address it at the next season setting effort in 2027 if they want too. They could also pass an amended season for 27 so the implementation takes effect in 27 rather than 28. The season was established due to high pressure from NR dog trainers coming in to MT in great numbers, with some illegal outfitting going on as well under the guise of sports picking up dogs from the trainer and then hunting with them for a few days.
It would seem that this year the Sept 1st date stands for NR dog trainers, but they still have to get a D5 license and list the # of dogs, etc.
BuzzH
Well-known member
I hope Wyoming is paying attention...
SAJ-99
Well-known member
@Treeshark isn't wrong. It's like pushing on a string - action without impact. At least that is my guess. Time will tell.
I think that would be great for residents and meet the intent of the idea, however, I highly doubt the commission didn't already have knowledge of this issue. Maybe I'm a pessimist, but I'm seeing this oversight as known and the smoke and mirrors was intentional.
I'm only one person (disgusting NR too) and not bothered by the change. It'll still be hot and the birds will still be there after the wait period, and the season is still earlier than most other surrounding states, or at least very close in opening dates. I'll still chase birds on those Prairies and be happy.
The training for all needs to stop in advance of the season, not leading into it IMO.
I don't think there's ill intent on this, just a small issue to correct.
As far as the season itself, the commission will revisit it during the 2027 season setting effort, so there's a chance to impact it coming up next year.
I would politely disagree. I think the impact from this will be substantial over the course of a few of seasons. NR upland, Turkey and Waterfowl have been growing exponentially in MT. That's both good and bad. Good for the programs like Upland Game Bird, which provides about 1/2 million acres of upland habitat and access, the wetlands restoration account (waterfowl), etc. It's bad in that it tends to crowd out resident hunters, leading to a declining quality of the hunt.
The priority season's goal to is to provide residents with a better adventure while also addressing some abuses from NR's who have taken the generosity of the state for granted. When folks show up with a trailer full of dogs, run them for a week, then spend a week cycling friends or clients through their camps - residents take notice. It's also important to note that these changes are being requested by locals in R6. Folks had enough of the abuse, but still recognize the economic impact that upland hunting has in the region and want to just dial it back a bit.
This was a measured approach that should provide some relief for resident hunters, as well as the folks out in the uplands dealing with the early season crush.
All y'all need to thank @Eric Albus for this too. It died in House FWP after it passed the senate. Not sure what the deal was that got it squirted out, but Eric was knee deep in that mix.
406dn
Well-known member
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Regarding the dog training season. The restrictions apply to public land. The rub, I think, was a result of non resident dog trainers using state land concentrated in an area on the high line.
I've been an avid amateur pointing dog field trial participant for a long time now. That means I have trained dogs outside of normal hunting seasons during that time. I won't say that the trainers weren't causing any impact, but much of what I read during that time was factually false concerning how pointing dogs are trained. Unless a non resident trainer has an arrangement with a private landowner, the new training rules make training in Montana much less likely.
I expect that there are still a number of them who have a lease of some sort with private landowners. A trainer offers another set of eyes about what's going on. Certainly I have contacted landowners about cattle or sheep getting out, done repairs to fencing, etc. I've been welcome where I train for nearing 30 years.
I've been an avid amateur pointing dog field trial participant for a long time now. That means I have trained dogs outside of normal hunting seasons during that time. I won't say that the trainers weren't causing any impact, but much of what I read during that time was factually false concerning how pointing dogs are trained. Unless a non resident trainer has an arrangement with a private landowner, the new training rules make training in Montana much less likely.
I expect that there are still a number of them who have a lease of some sort with private landowners. A trainer offers another set of eyes about what's going on. Certainly I have contacted landowners about cattle or sheep getting out, done repairs to fencing, etc. I've been welcome where I train for nearing 30 years.
4 months of killing birds isn’t enough. We kill elk for 6 months why can’t we kill birds that long
Same issue in southeast region 7. Seen a group with 6-8 dogs hammer a chunk of BMA for a week straight every morning and afternoon.
I've hunted some type 1's in other regions where you are limited to the # of days you can hunt sequentially. Hunted on some that limit the # of hunters per day as well.
Landowners can get pretty creative on the BMA rules, and now with the access network, they can join up with other BMA operators and when someone breaks the rules, they get punted from all BMA's in the network. It's another tool for folks to use to help address issues like this, apart from regulatory or statutory changes.
This particular one is a type #1 where you fill out the card daily. Landowner doesn’t care as the more cards filled out the better
SAJ-99
Well-known member
I might take that bet. How are we measuring "impact"? Bird numbers? R hunter happiness
?You know I love your optimism, but in "a few seasons" the same people will be complaining about the same things.
You got a mirror? Good for Montana for actually doing something for its residents hopefully it’s the start of a trend.I might take that bet. How are we measuring "impact"? Bird numbers? R hunter happiness
You know I love your optimism, but in "a few seasons" the same people will be complaining about the same things.
SAJ-99
Well-known member
I'm not complaining, just asking Ben. You should recognize that as you are the Complainer in Chief. I couldn't care less and would tend to support it, but I'm now a NR so my opinion is irrelevant. Reality isn't changed though. I don’t hunt birds but I know they can be fanatical about it. The 10 day pause is just going to delay pressure. My question is what is the measure of success? Reduced NR hunter days? I would almost bet Ben on that but I have little confidence in the past Hunter Days number much less the objectivity and reliability of the future numbers.
What peaked my interest is Forky's application of the idea to D/E - Cut days on the front and back end. Great idea. Do you think it will matter though? How will you measure the impact? (Note: a lot of the problem is R hunters can't agree on what success is.) If the 17,000 was reduced to 15,000 will anyone notice?
My main "complaint" regarding the MFWP and the Legislature is they manage to "feelings". This news may feel great and posting a"Finally they care about us!" post. In a year it won't matter. The first time they see a NR camped with a 6 dog truck topper they are going to be mad and blame them for something.
Here is what the MOGA website shows regarding bird outfitters. So I'm guessing there was not a lot of pushback from them. Now let's see how doing the same thing on MD or Elk goes. Like a lot of NRs here, I think it would be great to see you do anything but complain or hike NR prices.
I might take that bet. How are we measuring "impact"? Bird numbers? R hunter happiness
You know I love your optimism, but in "a few seasons" the same people will be complaining about the same things.
Well it's a sport to bitch about fish and game. There will always be those voices regardless of the issue. I've got Wyoming Wildlife magazines from the 1930's & 40's that discuss a lot of the same stuff we gripe about today.
My measurement is reduced tension from local landowners & resident hunters, a reduction in the bad actors who caused the problem to begin with and increased opportunity for residents on birds during the early season of prairie grouse & pheasant.
The benefits to wildlife are less pressure & stress, less abuse & a happier resident population willing to advocate for bird habitat.
I can see how the change may be perceived as performative but I don't think this is. We often overlook smaller changes in the rush to turn the issue of resident & NR into political power.
