Cattle

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Randy11- Will the absence of cattle be an on-going thing?

That's the plan for now, although it could and probably will change in the future. I'm curious to see how it works out as well. I'm hoping we have a few more years like last year though, it was pretty cool.

 

[1_pointer]

Keep me posted on what you see. I need some family with a ranch somewhere...

 

[Big Shooter]

Jose....have you ever heard of a person being called a "High Brow" or know the definition of one? The definition of a "High Brow" is as follows: A person who is educated beyond their intelligence. You, my friend are a "High Brow"......among a few other things that I should probably not put on here because I would get reprimanded or kicked off.

When it comes to AUM's you have no goddamn clue......which you just proved when you called them AMU's. You and your problem with "Welfare Ranchers" on"Your Public Land" gets old.....in a hurry. I bet you also think that those said ranchers are just cutting a fat hog in the ass every year because the grass is so cheap and all is just total bliss. Again, you have not a clue. Do some ranchers that lease grazing on public ground abuse it? Yep, probably do. But to blame them for your shortcomings as a hunter is a bit ridiculous, because when you step back and look at the big picture......they are the ones that are supplying beef to the world population. The next time that you think everything is so rosey in the cattle industry you might want to check the markets. Cattle have traded down the limit damn near everyday last week, and will possibly continue to do so until the corn market straightens out. But I bet you still think that those guys with their cattle that are supposedly in your way when you are trying to hunt will never see another poor day.

Their are some people that replied to this thread that have some common sense.....they may not agree with how public land grazing is governed, but realize that it is somewhat important for various reasons. Water, fire control, raising beef......just small things like that. But I would also bet that they are successful while hunting every fall even though they have to deal with a few cows being around them.

 

[sbhooper]

Well put, Big Shooter. This type of thing should be discussed rationally without the name calling. Whether pro or con, the subject can be discussed without trashing the people envolved.

There are plenty of abuses by grazing leasees, but there are also plenty of land abuses by the people that use the land for recreation. Off-road destruction is rampant by riders of ATVs and big trucks in spite of laws to regulate it. Throwing trash, destroying facilities and starting fires are some other examples.

No one is perfect when it comes to utilization of government lands. As I have stated earlier, the only real problem that I have is the total lack of access to certain tracks of land. At that point, it is no longer PUBLIC land.

It would not surprise me if the federal government started selling off federal lands to pay the debt. If this happens, then it will be a whole different world and there will be no access. Developers and other extremely rich people will own all the access.

 

[JoseCuervo]

When it comes to AUM's you have no goddamn clue......which you just proved when you called them AMU's. You and your problem with "Welfare Ranchers" on"Your Public Land" gets old.....in a hurry. I bet you also think that those said ranchers are just cutting a fat hog in the ass every year because the grass is so cheap and all is just total bliss. Again, you have not a clue. Do some ranchers that lease grazing on public ground abuse it? Yep, probably do. But to blame them for your shortcomings as a hunter is a bit ridiculous, because when you step back and look at the big picture......they are the ones that are supplying beef to the world population. The next time that you think everything is so rosey in the cattle industry you might want to check the markets. Cattle have traded down the limit damn near everyday last week, and will possibly continue to do so until the corn market straightens out. But I bet you still think that those guys with their cattle that are supposedly in your way when you are trying to hunt will never see another poor day.

Their are some people that replied to this thread that have some common sense.....they may not agree with how public land grazing is governed, but realize that it is somewhat important for various reasons. Water, fire control, raising beef......just small things like that. But I would also bet that they are successful while hunting every fall even though they have to deal with a few cows being around them.

If a Welfare Rancher hasn't been "cutting a fat hog in the ass" the last few years, then, maybe that Welfare Rancher's banker needs to have a serious talk with the Welfare Rancher and suggest he give up trying to play cowboy and go into town and get a job. The Welfare Ranchers I know have been living well the past few years, lots of new Dodge 1-tons, lots of new aluminum stock trailers, haven't heard a single complaint from any of them other than the normal stuff they complain about. If you are whining about money, then you might want to go into town and get a job.

And, please share with us how "important" it is for Welfare Ranchers to be "raising beef". What percentage of this nation's beef ever steps foot on My Public Lands? Find that answer, and you will see that Welfare Ranching isn't very important.

And, not sure how you think steam degradation, trampling stream beds, dewatering, and raising water temps are "important" for water. That is some pure nonsense and bullshit on your part.

And, as for "fire", yes, I would agree that the cheet grass that is all over the BLM lands due to abusive grazing practices by Welfare Ranchers is "important".

 

[MTbowhunter84]

It comes down to this. Yes it is our public lands to use, so use it, but at the same time it is also grazing area for ranchers who have leases on the ground to keep their businesses going. If you don't like to hunt public lands with cows in the same areas, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE! Don't blame the local ranchers who need those grazing areas just to help them make a living. In today's world it is hard to make a living doing anything let alone to tell them to go town and get a job, when most likely they grew up ranching and it's a way of life more than a job.

It's appalling that you think ranchers are so called "welfare rancher" WAKE UP! If you think all they do is "play cowboy" go help brand once in a while, go help them calve in the winter time and wake up every couple of hours to make sure all of your calves make it and end up pulling three or four calves. Help them feed every morning in the winter. Or come out here and call some of the locals welfare ranchers who just lost up 1/2 of their herd in the fires and tell me if they just do this to play cowboy. Some may never be able to ranch again, which is most likely the only job they have ever had.

But no all they do is get money from the government. All they do is eat up all of the cheap grass on public grounds and affect my hunting. They are some of the hardest working people I know and you should be thankful for what they provide.

 

[JoseCuervo]

It comes down to this. Yes it is our public lands to use, so use it, but at the same time it is also grazing area for ranchers who have leases on the ground to keep their businesses going. If you don't like to hunt public lands with cows in the same areas, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE! Don't blame the local ranchers who need those grazing areas just to help them make a living. In today's world it is hard to make a living doing anything let alone to tell them to go town and get a job, when most likely they grew up ranching and it's a way of life more than a job.

It's appalling that you think ranchers are so called "welfare rancher" WAKE UP! If you think all they do is "play cowboy" go help brand once in a while, go help them calve in the winter time and wake up every couple of hours to make sure all of your calves make it and end up pulling three or four calves. Help them feed every morning in the winter. Or come out here and call some of the locals welfare ranchers who just lost up 1/2 of their herd in the fires and tell me if they just do this to play cowboy. Some may never be able to ranch again, which is most likely the only job they have ever had.

But no all they do is get money from the government. All they do is eat up all of the cheap grass on public grounds and affect my hunting. They are some of the hardest working people I know and you should be thankful for what they provide.

What kind of Socialist are you where you want the Government allocating public resources for the production of food stuffs? Guess I don't understand your brand of Socialism, or, is that Communism? (I get those two mixed up.)

And, for your information, I have fed plenty of cows in the winter (and spring, summer and fall), I have put my brand on plenty of cattle, and, we have NEVER needed to run our cows on the Public Lands for a single day. Unlike you, we support free enterprise, we support the use of private resources for the production of private entities.

So, you can romanticize all you want about the Marlboro Man out "riding the range", and, great if someone can make it in 2012 living life like they did in 1880. But, that doesn't mean the rest of us need to support Welfare Ranchers. There are plenty of hard working, honest, productive, etc ranchers who do quite nicely on DEEDED lands, and don't rely on sucking off the government to get $1.35 grazing permits. Hell, you can't even feed a cat for $1.35 a month, but, you can feed a cow and a 5-weight? Yeah, ain't gonna get much sympathy for that.

 

[jmcd]

What kind of Socialist are you where you want the Government allocating public resources for the production of food stuffs? Guess I don't understand your brand of Socialism, or, is that Communism? (I get those two mixed up.)

And, for your information, I have fed plenty of cows in the winter (and spring, summer and fall), I have put my brand on plenty of cattle, and, we have NEVER needed to run our cows on the Public Lands for a single day. Unlike you, we support free enterprise, we support the use of private resources for the production of private entities.

So, you can romanticize all you want about the Marlboro Man out "riding the range", and, great if someone can make it in 2012 living life like they did in 1880. But, that doesn't mean the rest of us need to support Welfare Ranchers. There are plenty of hard working, honest, productive, etc ranchers who do quite nicely on DEEDED lands, and don't rely on sucking off the government to get $1.35 grazing permits. Hell, you can't even feed a cat for $1.35 a month, but, you can feed a cow and a 5-weight? Yeah, ain't gonna get much sympathy for that.

You go girl!

 

[Big Shooter]

Jose;

So you think that just because they drive new Dodge pickups and new aluminum trailers that they are just rolling in the dough? Good God man.......get a grip! I suppose you also think that you are doing them a favor by letting them graze your public land too. Do you go up to their place and ask them if you can drive that new Dodge pickup for a day or two because they made all of their money because of you and your land? It would not surprise me if the answer to both questions was "Yes". We run 99.9% on deeded ground. We do have one half section of state, so at 5:30 tomorrow morning when I am checking on bulls and ride across it, I will definitely think of you.

I don't hold it against the public land grazers one bit that their input costs are somewhat less than ours, good for them. I spent 4 days this past week helping a friend of mine get their cattle gathered and paired so they could haul them to some grass because their forest leases all burned during the fire north of Ashland. It was quite depressing actually, listening to them talk about having to put cattle down and to see photos of the death and destruction that the fire had caused as well as listening to how this will set them back for years to come. But I am sure that you know all of this because you were probably down there fighting fire and protecting your public land huh?

So.....are you implying that all of the cattle that get exported are public land cattle? You ask what percentage of our nations beef ever steps foot on public grounds? I am going to go out on a limb and say quite a few. Have you ever seen a sign that says "100% Pure Angus Beef that has only been run on Deeded Ground?

The next time that you are out on your BLM or State and you see a water tank go ask the rancher that has it leased who put it their and you will be surprised when he tells you that he did.

 

[NVLongbow]

The ranchers that graze the federal land in arid portions of Nevada have made big improvements to the water sources which has greatly benefited the wildlife.

The springs they maintain would normally only bring water to the surface for a few months in only the wettest years. With the rancher efforts, these springs provide water all year.

The ranchers also helped maintain reasonable wild horse populations but that is not an option for them any more.

I am not a big fan of the cheap grazing fees but there are/were some areas where their management practices did a lot of good.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Jose;

So you think that just because they drive new Dodge pickups and new aluminum trailers that they are just rolling in the dough? Good God man.......get a grip! I suppose you also think that you are doing them a favor by letting them graze your public land too. Do you go up to their place and ask them if you can drive that new Dodge pickup for a day or two because they made all of their money because of you and your land? It would not surprise me if the answer to both questions was "Yes". We run 99.9% on deeded ground. We do have one half section of state, so at 5:30 tomorrow morning when I am checking on bulls and ride across it, I will definitely think of you.

I don't hold it against the public land grazers one bit that their input costs are somewhat less than ours, good for them. I spent 4 days this past week helping a friend of mine get their cattle gathered and paired so they could haul them to some grass because their forest leases all burned during the fire north of Ashland. It was quite depressing actually, listening to them talk about having to put cattle down and to see photos of the death and destruction that the fire had caused as well as listening to how this will set them back for years to come. But I am sure that you know all of this because you were probably down there fighting fire and protecting your public land huh?

So.....are you implying that very few, if any, cattle that come off of public lands get exported and that it is just the cattle off of deeded? You ask what percentage of our nations beef ever steps foot on public grounds? I am going to go out on a limb and say quite a few. Have you ever seen a sign that says "100% Pure Angus Beef that has only been run on Jose's public land"? Or have you ever ordered the Public Land Angus Burger at your favorite restaurant?

The next time that you are out on your BLM or State and you see a water tank go ask the rancher that has it leased who put it their and you will be surprised when he tells you that he did.

Next time I see a water tank , I'll just jack a shell in the chamber and put a new drain hole in the tank and think of you.



Again, tell me how important It is for Welfare Ranchers. The only number I can find right now is 3%, which sounds about right (I thought it was less than 5%).

. Economic Contributions of Federal Public Lands Livestock Grazing
Public lands grazers are a minority of livestock producers in the West and in the country...1
• Number of livestock producers with federal grazing permits in the West: 22,350.2
• Percentage of beef producers with federal grazing permits in the United States: 3%.3
• Percentage of beef producers with federal grazing permits in eleven Western states: 22%.4
• Number of beef producers without federal grazing permits: 880,000.5
Subsidized by taxpayers, public lands grazers pay far less than market value for federal
forage and grazing fees on comparable state and private lands...
• Fee to graze one cow and calf for one month (AUM) on most federal public lands (2009): $1.35.6 • Average fee per AUM on non-irrigated private lands in sixteen western states (2007): $15.90.7
• Range of fees per AUM on state lands in the West (2004): $1.35 - $80.00.8
• Fee per AUM the Bureau of Land Management would need to charge to recoup grazing costs (2004): $7.64.9 • Fee per AUM the Forest Service would need to charge to recoup grazing costs (2004): $12.26.10

The forage provided, and the beef produced from federal public lands is insignificant...
• Percentage of total feed for livestock (cattle and sheep) in the United States supplied from federal lands: 2%.11
• Percentage of American beef produced from federal rangelands: less than 3%.

. Public-lands ranching produces less than 5 percent of the nation's beef. Yet it monopolizes 252 million acres supposedly managed for “multiple use” by the U.S. Forest Service and the Bureau of Land Management (BLM). Even national wildlife refuges, national park units, and federal wilderness areas—off-limits to virtually all other extractive industries—allow grazing where deemed a “traditional use.”

After the public gets finished paying for public-lands grazing in lost fish, wildlife, plants, soil, and water, it gets to pay for it again in dollars. According to the General Accounting Office, 10 federal agencies lost $123 million administering grazing in fiscal 2004.

. In the United States, livestock grazing has contributed to the listing of 22 percent of federal threatened and endangered species—almost equal to logging (12 percent) and mining (11 percent) combined. No other human activity in the West is as responsible for the decline or loss of species as is livestock production.

 

[elkohalic]

Jose sounds like you are quoting directly from Jon Marvel's coolaid. Where are you getting your figures from Jose? I am always interested in good stats.

You mentioned having worked on a ranch taking care of cattle. Gonna call BS on that.

Oh one last thing, since I don't know about cattle markets I was wondering what the prices were for 450 lb steers and heifers?

Thanks for the help.

 

[idelkhntr]

You know what's funny? I just wanted to get an opinion on other peoples experience just because I was curious. I didn't mean to start a political debate. Like another poster said, it was an innocent question. I have enough drama in my life without creating more by simply posting a question about cattle and elk. Whether or not cattle can graze in forest service ground is something that I cannot control and is way above my pay grade so honestly, I could care less. My little problem with cattle in my elk area is certainly not going to change the law and whatever else is in place to allow these cattle to be there. Sorry I asked. Those that responded with a real answer about cattle and elk coexisting in the same area, or not, thanks.

 

[WBouldin]

I love how some of these threads of "innocent" questions just get hi-jacked into political debates!!

Just another Dick Measuring Contest brought to you by JoseCuervo and Hunttalkers dumb enough to take the bait

 

[Wyodeerhunter]

Just another Dick Measuring Contest brought to you by JoseCuervo and Hunttalkers dumb enough to take the bait

You sure do eat the bait quite often...

 

[WBouldin]

You sure do eat the bait quite often...

Haha yes but to fuel this entertaining practice of reading grown men debate stupid topics such as grazing cows and it's connection to Welfare.

At the end of the day you're all still middle aged men sitting at a computer with a slightly increased heart rate over what? The opinions of some nobody blanketed by the obscurities of an Internet screen name? That's entertainment to me and if all I have to do is poke the logs to get the wood burning again, you bet your $.02 AUB that I'll do it lolz

 

[sbhooper]

I take exception to that! I am actually pretty damned old!

 

[JoseCuervo]

Jose sounds like you are quoting directly from Jon Marvel's coolaid. Where are you getting your figures from Jose? I am always interested in good stats.

You mentioned having worked on a ranch taking care of cattle. Gonna call BS on that.

Oh one last thing, since I don't know about cattle markets I was wondering what the prices were for 450 lb steers and heifers?

Thanks for the help.

Big Shooter had 2 opportunities to say how "important" it was to the beef supply to have Welfare Rancher's cows grazing on My Public Lands. He passed on the opportunity, so, it looks like we will have to go with the numbers above.

Oh, and since you don't know about cattle markets, maybe you should call your local sale yard, and they can teach you about the topic you don't know jack-shit about. And, while you are there, ask them for last week's results, they will be more than happy to share them with you.

 

[6speed]

Why would someone with so much ranching experience have a thread asking about badgers in their trailer park?

 

[SWMontana1]

Why would someone with so much ranching experience have a thread asking about badgers in their trailer park?

Now that is CLASSIC!! HAHA