Bulls for Billionaires - MT EQC Meeting today 1:30 PM

[Eric Albus]

Aren’t the elk eating them out of house and home? That should be incentive enough.

For traditional Mt ranchers, a resounding yes. For wealthy NR landowners, they don’t care about financial impacts, they don’t rely on cattle to pay the bills. They like numbers of elk on the playground.

 

[Eric Albus]

“No effing way I’m letting a Purple Heart recipient hunt on my place unless I get a free elk tag.”

The landowner DREW a 680 bull tag, and gave it up to the PH recipient.

 

[bigsky2]

On some of these ranches, take the horse ranch for example. Thousands of elk Pressured by the PUBLIC that rarely to never leave. Who really cares if the landowner(s) get a bull permit or two that goes over the sacred 10% in order to ensure the public receives access for an equal number of bulls, and “X” number of cow elk?(X being a substantial number in this case)
I’m at the point of of thinking we ought go with a limited number of permits good only on private land. For each of these permits issued (drawn) x number of cow elk must be taken. Make the season for either sex(bulls) good for first 2 weeks only, then cows last 3 weeks, until objectives/carry capacity is balanced. The landowners and biologists (both FWP and private) having a say as to what healthy objectives are.

TWO is substantial?!

 

[Schaaf]

The landowner DREW a 680 bull tag, and gave it up to the PH recipient.

Good on them.

Regardless, I think most people critical of the current suite of 454 agreements can see the differences between rewarding the good neighbor ranching family in 680 vs the agreements found in 411.

16 cows off the N-Bar over the season does absolutely nothing to get populations in check other than give Billionaires free bull tags.

 

[bigsky2]

If there is not an incentive for landowners to allow access then there will be no access

It would be stupid for someone to apply for a private land only permit unless they knew they had a good chance to get access. I know quite a few people that would be able to get access to private if they were able to draw a permit (speaking to rifle hunting). Even if substantially more elk weren't killed, at least the people that drew public land permits would be able to have a quality hunt. The way it is now, a limited elk permit isn't that special in a lot of cases because of the crowding and lack of elk distribution.

 

[Point Creep]

I’m at the point of of thinking we ought go with a limited number of permits good only on private land. For each of these permits issued (drawn) x number of cow elk must be taken. Make the season for either sex(bulls) good for first 2 weeks only, then cows last 3 weeks, until objectives/carry capacity is balanced. The landowners and biologists (both FWP and private) having a say as to what healthy objectives are.

How about the first two weeks cows only Eric, until that objective is met, then a couple bulls?

Kind of like your 5 day non-resident season, designed to fully serve one particular group..

 

[Point Creep]

Eric - seriously. What do you think the large increase in archery (bull) quotas, and increased rifle bull quotas is going to do to public land hunter pressure? Get elk down to objective - or all but guarantee the elk are instantly pushed to and kept on private land all season?

 

[DFS]

Eric - seriously. What do you think the large increase in archery (bull) quotas, and increased rifle bull quotas is going to do to public land hunter pressure? Get elk down to objective - or all but guarantee the elk are instantly pushed to and kept on private land all season?

“Fixing” the problem by making it worse. Interesting tactic by the Director. Had to try something.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Interesting tactic by the Director. Had to try something.

... to "start the conversation".

 

[Buffs35]

16 cows off the N-Bar over the season does absolutely nothing to get populations in check other than give Billionaires free bull tags.

Yeah, but I bet the Billionaires spend more in the local economy than DIY public hunters.

 

[brockel]

Why not an “earn a bull program”. Starting august 15. Get 20 cows killed earn a bull tag.

 

[Point Creep]

Why not an “earn a bull program”. Starting august 15. Get 20 cows killed earn a bull tag.

How about for every 50 cows killed on a private ranch August 15-Sept 1, they get 2 bull permits, one at ranchers' discretion, one to public with open range to hunt the same ranch, all season. Sounds "punitive" I bet to some.

 

[Eric Albus]

Eric - seriously. What do you think the large increase in archery (bull) quotas, and increased rifle bull quotas is going to do to public land hunter pressure? Get elk down to objective - or all but guarantee the elk are instantly pushed to and kept on private land all season?

I know what it’s doing, and have loudly voiced my opinion AGAINST any increase. When the former biologist in R6 raised the quota of rifle tags I was pissed. I asked at a meeting what the thinking was. I stated “you’re going to ruin the quality of bulls on the north side”, to which he replied,” it’s about more opportunity, the Dept doesn’t care about trophies”

As to the 5 day NR season, it’s about giving the R hunters weekends free. If you weren’t so jaundiced (I’d call it stupid, but I know you just enough to realize you aren’t) you’d realize it’s going to COST me a lot of revenue GIVING up those days of hunting. So now what do have to say??

 

[rogerthat]

I know what it’s doing, and have loudly voiced my opinion AGAINST any increase. When the former biologist in R6 raised the quota of rifle tags I was pissed. I asked at a meeting what the thinking was. I stated “you’re going to ruin the quality of bulls on the north side”, to which he replied,” it’s about more opportunity, the Dept doesn’t care about trophies”

As to the 5 day NR season, it’s about giving the R hunters weekends free. If you weren’t so jaundiced (I’d call it stupid, but I know you just enough to realize you aren’t) you’d realize it’s going to COST me a lot of revenue GIVING up those days of hunting. So now what do have to say??

This is where I get really confused, is that you and big shooter come on hunttalk and make these statements and Mac minard and moga come out with strong statements in the opposite. I get that you are allowed to have your own opinion but damn it’s confusing

 

[Point Creep]

So now what do have to say??

 

[brockel]

I asked at a meeting what the thinking was. I stated “you’re going to ruin the quality of bulls on the north side”, to which he replied,” it’s about more opportunity, the Dept doesn’t care about trophies”

That biologist was 100% correct in his statement at the end there. I’ve been told that by multiple biologists.

“Montana does not manage even their limited entry draw permits for trophy potential. The only reason they are managed as a limited entry is the elk herd would be gone 2 years if it was a general draw”. That’s what they tell me.

 

[bigsky2]

@Eric Albus Do you still think the two cow hunters that the Horse Ranch gave access to as part of their 454 agreements is a substantial number?

 

[Stone_Ice_1]

For traditional Mt ranchers, a resounding yes. For wealthy NR landowners, they don’t care about financial impacts, they don’t rely on cattle to pay the bills. They like numbers of elk on the playground.

I agree with this statement but there is an easy fix for traditional MT ranchers. Let people hunt on your property and those pesky elk won't be around long. I know one response will be that the season doesn't last all year. It doesn't, but there is something like a 9 month long season in some places and that is more than enough to keep the elk from always being on the property, they just have to allow some access to their property.

 

[Point Creep]

I know what it’s doing, and have loudly voiced my opinion AGAINST any increase.

What's it doing? Type it out. And who's idea is it?

Then let us know why you and your group are big supporters of the Hank Worsech mission.

It sure is fascinating.

 

[Point Creep]

This is where I get really confused, is that you and big shooter come on hunttalk and make these statements and Mac minard and moga come out with strong statements in the opposite. I get that you are allowed to have your own opinion but damn it’s confusing

It’s not that confusing..