BLM fence crossing

[cwitherow]

I'd rather ask and be judged than get it wrong later...

Can you cross a fence on BLM land if it is BLM land on both sides? We ran into this last time we were in WY and didn't know if we could cross it or not, so we stayed on the side we were on. We were using OnX chip and phone.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Yep. Honestly fences in the west mean very little in regards to property boundaries.

There are probably a million miles of barbwire on public lands.

Couple things to keep in mind:

1. OnX or other similar sources may tell you one thing when reality is another. For the most part OnX is just assembling data, they aren't send folks out into the field to shoot boundaries. Therefore their data is only as good as the source they got it from, typically county GIS departments/Accessors are the ones in charge of this task. Every county is different, one county might have a top of the line GIS department and uploads ownership and boundary changes as they come in, other counties are stuck in 1928 and don't even have computers. They are basically black holes.

That's a long preamble to say if your mapping software says you are 100ft from a boundary line and you hit a fence, don't cross it. That fence is likely the boundary.

2. Fences are about keeping in livestock, if someone has a BLM lease above their private their fence will just continue onto the public land. It's not uncommon to find pivot systems, agg fields, and fenced areas that are 100% legal to hunt. My personal rule of thumb is to 1. Check OnX 2. Check for no hunting postings and 3. Only hunt larger parcels. If only 1 acre of an agg field appears to be BLM I don't mess with it, if it's 40 I will hunt it.

In all cases if someone gives you a hard time be polite, show them your map, and if the landowner threatens to call the game warden politely call their bluff.

"Sir or mama I believe I killed this buck on public land, OnX and the county website both say it's public. I understand sometimes these sources can be wrong if you feel this is the case I can call the game warden and they can help us sort out everything."

 

[OntarioHunter]

No problem doing that in Montana.

 

[D4570]

Most of the time their grazing unit fences.
Off a county road on to BLM, you can go through the gates on to any numbered BLM road also.

 

[ashersdad]

I think you're fine in your situation. As has been mentioned, don't think that your OnX is 100% accurate. When we were in Wyoming this month hunting antelope my OnX was showing a herd of antelope on public by about 50 yards however there was a fence that separated sage brush country from farm country and the antelope were on the farm country side of the fence by about 20 yards. Wasn't about to risk it so we moved on after waiting to see if they'd cross the fence. Better to be safe.

 

[mtmiller]

Yes you are fine crossing fences with public on both sides. Another note, lots of fences out there are not on the boundary.

 

[Bob-WY]

One spot I hunt is BLM with a big state property square in the middle. Its fenced, its very strange

 

[arthurpete]

Yep. Honestly fences in the west mean very little in regards to property boundaries.

There are probably a million miles of barbwire on public lands.

Couple things to keep in mind:

1. OnX or other similar sources may tell you one thing when reality is another. For the most part OnX is just assembling data, they aren't send folks out into the field to shoot boundaries. Therefore their data is only as good as the source they got it from, typically county GIS departments/Accessors are the ones in charge of this task. Every county is different, one county might have a top of the line GIS department and uploads ownership and boundary changes as they come in, other counties are stuck in 1928 and don't even have computers. They are basically black holes.

That's a long preamble to say if your mapping software says you are 100ft from a boundary line and you hit a fence, don't cross it. That fence is likely the boundary.

2. Fences are about keeping in livestock, if someone has a BLM lease above their private their fence will just continue onto the public land. It's not uncommon to find pivot systems, agg fields, and fenced areas that are 100% legal to hunt. My personal rule of thumb is to 1. Check OnX 2. Check for no hunting postings and 3. Only hunt larger parcels. If only 1 acre of an agg field appears to be BLM I don't mess with it, if it's 40 I will hunt it.

In all cases if someone gives you a hard time be polite, show them your map, and if the landowner threatens to call the game warden politely call their bluff.

"Sir or mama I believe I killed this buck on public land, OnX and the county website both say it's public. I understand sometimes these sources can be wrong if you feel this is the case I can call the game warden and they can help us sort out everything."

As someone who works for in GIS for the local tax assessors office, i can tell you our parcel lines are off in places, sometimes as much as 50-100 ft. Ive noticed that with OnX as well, its a great service but their data is only as good as what is given to them. If in doubt about a particular property, go to the county's tax assessors website and pull the legal description for the parcel, although that is not fail safe either as some descriptions could be old as dirt but it could help answer some questions.

 

[arthurpete]

Most of the time their grazing unit fences.
Off a county road on to BLM, you can go through the gates on to any numbered BLM road also.

This was something i was wondering myself. Doing a lot of street view scouting and im seeing several BLM access points off county roads that have gates.

 

[mtmiller]

One spot I hunt is BLM with a big state property square in the middle. Its fenced, its very strange

Different grazing permits?

 

[OntarioHunter]

This was something i was wondering myself. Doing a lot of street view scouting and im seeing several BLM access points off county roads that have gates.

The grazing rights are leased by the rancher. Wouldn't do much good if it isn't gated. The cattle would get loose.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Different grazing permits?

Exactly. Sometimes the permits can differ in the number of pairs (cow and calf) allowed on the property or the duration of grazing. Where I hunt in Montana it appears state school lands are more lax about overgrazing than BLM. That is a casual observation. There's a lot of factors that can contribute to an appearance of over grazing.

 

[Nameless Range]

Last fall I hunted a few thousand acre chunk of BLM and there were 5 fence crossings on the road that cuts through it. All different pastures, all BLM. The same could be said for USFS ground as well.

 

[arthurpete]

The grazing rights are leased by the rancher. Wouldn't do much good if it isn't gated. The cattle would get loose.

Im aware of the point behind fences. I just wasnt sure if the access spur/gate was leased by the rancher giving them exclusive use.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

As someone who works for in GIS for the local tax assessors office, i can tell you our parcel lines are off in places, sometimes as much as 50-100 ft. Ive noticed that with OnX as well, its a great service but their data is only as good as what is given to them. If in doubt about a particular property, go to the county's tax assessors website and pull the legal description for the parcel, although that is not fail safe either as some descriptions could be old as dirt but it could help answer some questions.

This has been my experience with counties lol

we don’t really know where the boundary is, we just had the intern who knows how to use these “cogo” tools, not sure what those are, sketch them in, don’t worry we use the deeded acres for tax purposes so the calculated acres won’t even be close.

Honestly you should just get it surveyed... also could you send us the shapefiles on a CD when you’re done, also can you elaborate on this whole title opinion concept.

Oh one more thing quitclaim versus easement, now why shouldn’t I use the quitclaim for bus stops?

 

[arthurpete]

This has been my experience with counties lol

we don’t really know where the boundary is, we just had the intern who knows how to use these “cogo” tools, not sure what those are, sketch them in, don’t worry we use the deeded acres for tax purposes so the calculated acres won’t even be close.

Honestly you should just get it surveyed... also could you send us the shapefiles on a CD when you’re done, also can you elaborate on this whole title opinion concept.

Oh one more thing quitclaim versus easement, now why shouldn’t I use the quitclaim for bus stops?

Lol, the line about "tax purposes only" gets used quite often around here. In our case most of the time the really out of whack areas are from the old scanned in hand drawn maps and digitized from blue line maps from the 60s that were based on questionable surveys. Plus we still have the remnants of Spanish Land Grants which really throw a wrench into the whole cadastral system. With that said, surveys are gold and we treat them as such, the accuracy of the digital maps is ever evolving.

 

[matt0550]

Yes you are fine crossing fences with public on both sides. Another note, lots of fences out there are not on the boundary.

This is funny because last October a rancher pulled down this little two track we were off of and flashed his headlights at my bud and I. We walked back to him - only about 3/4 mile. He was just the nicest guy and told us we didn't need to make the three mile hike we were about to embark on to get to our spot and that the other 2 track was actually on BLM and that his fence was off by more than 200 yards. He smiled and said "well I ain't movin it now". We brought him back a backstrap and made a good friend in the deal. His land doesn't hold much, but it was nice of him to come and advise us of his situation - saved us alot of time and some boot leather. I think he reads here, so if you see this, good on ya sir!

 

[npaden]

Another note, lots of fences out there are not on the boundary.

Even on private property bordering private property the fences aren't always right on the boundary. When I bought my property the survey indicated that the fence was 30 feet off the boundary in one corner and in another area the neighbor has just given up fencing the boundary line along the creek and moved the fence back as far as 100 yards onto his property in places.

On public and private land interfaces I've seen it both ways, big chunks of public fenced in with the private and big chunks of private not fenced in. Some places in Wyoming antelope country there just aren't many fences at all even when there is some private mixed in.

 

[BackofBeyond]

I really don't have anything to add about fences being on public, it's all been said before. What I would like to add though is, if you come to a gate on public leave it in the same condition you found it. As in, if you open the gate to cross the fence line, close it behind you. If you find an open gate - leave it open.