Ithaca 37
New member
Sure Paul, send me an email and I'll call you on the phone.
Bighorn sheep tag goes for $90,000
- Thread starter Ithaca 37
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BigHornyRam
New member
Ithaca,
Why would I want to give you access to my phone number or e-mail?
What I want is an appology and retraction of your comments reguarding the outfitter right here for all to see or things could get even more muddy.
Your call.
Paul
Why would I want to give you access to my phone number or e-mail?
What I want is an appology and retraction of your comments reguarding the outfitter right here for all to see or things could get even more muddy.
Your call.
Paul
Nut
New member
Was the land that the dispute happenend to be on public land? or private land where all parties had access? Why is this a Idaho vs Montana thing? Too many details not told to completely understand.
You guys should at least use the PM functions to sort out your differences.
You guys should at least use the PM functions to sort out your differences.
Ithaca 37
New member
Paul, "Why would I want to give you access to my phone number or e-mail?" So I can tell you the truth about what happened would be the main reason. You've got the story so wrong I'm starting to wonder if we're talking about the same incident!!
I just called one of the guys who was accused of bumping the sheep. He had never heard the bird hunting story and wondered how that one got started!! Actually, it was probably the guide who spooked the sheep, but he sure wasn't going to admit it. The outfitter wasn't at that camp. There were a lot of other people around because it was the beginning of archery season and bird season. I doubt if anyone knows exactly where the sheep went or why, but it was probably an accumulation of all the activity in that area that caused them to move.
Nut, The hunters camp and the sheep were on public land about 70 miles from Boise on a well traveled road you could drive a car up. In fact, other people had been driving up that road the day the incident happened and the sheep were no doubt noticing all the new activity. Anyone who scouts out sheep in such a public place so close to Boise and expects them not to get disturbed during bird season and archery season isn't thinking well!
Paul, If you let me tell you the facts or let me give you the phone # of one of the accused so you can call him you'll find out I'm telling the truth and someone has been giving you a lot of incorrect information. You're the one who should be apologizing!
If you don't want to do that why don't you just tell us all the whole story, as you know it. Then I'll blow it all full of holes and make you look foolish when I tell the true story. My story is going to make a lot more sense than anything you come up with because I know the facts. You can save yourself a lot of embarrassment if you email me your phone #.
I'm leaving for some turkey hunting tomorrow so it might take a few days to get back to you. I'm only offering to do this because I hate to see somebody like you and LA spreading false stories about guys who are very hard working Idaho FNAWS directors.
As for your threat, "What I want is an appology and retraction of your comments reguarding the outfitter right here for all to see or things could get even more muddy.
Your call."
I'm trying to save you a lot of embarrassment but if you insist on looking foolish go right ahead!
Here's the only part of the story I didn't get completely correct (that I know of):
"The guys who spooked the rams aren't bird hunters. They didn't know the rams were around and they didn't see them."
They did know the rams were somewhere around there but they had split up to scout in different directions and one of them did see the sheep. The other guy was a couple miles away. And I should have said--"the guys who were ACCUSED of spooking the rams". The guy who did see the sheep probably wasn't the one who spooked them. Most likely it was the guide who was whistling and waving to him.
That's when the sheep started wandering away.
The outfitter, who's first initial is "M", didn't hear the story until about four or five days later. The guide did find a ram in that area a few days later but the hunter missed it. It didn't become a big incident until the season was over and the hunter hadn't got a ram. That's when he figured he'd make a big deal out of it all and try to get his money back, or another sheep tag from F&G. Naturally, he got zip.
And I should have been saying "the guide" instead of the "outfitter" most of the time because the outfitter wasn't there at the time of the incident. He didn't find out about it until the following Tuesday or Wednesday. The guide was running the camp.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-24-2003 21:48: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
I just called one of the guys who was accused of bumping the sheep. He had never heard the bird hunting story and wondered how that one got started!! Actually, it was probably the guide who spooked the sheep, but he sure wasn't going to admit it. The outfitter wasn't at that camp. There were a lot of other people around because it was the beginning of archery season and bird season. I doubt if anyone knows exactly where the sheep went or why, but it was probably an accumulation of all the activity in that area that caused them to move.
Nut, The hunters camp and the sheep were on public land about 70 miles from Boise on a well traveled road you could drive a car up. In fact, other people had been driving up that road the day the incident happened and the sheep were no doubt noticing all the new activity. Anyone who scouts out sheep in such a public place so close to Boise and expects them not to get disturbed during bird season and archery season isn't thinking well!
Paul, If you let me tell you the facts or let me give you the phone # of one of the accused so you can call him you'll find out I'm telling the truth and someone has been giving you a lot of incorrect information. You're the one who should be apologizing!
If you don't want to do that why don't you just tell us all the whole story, as you know it. Then I'll blow it all full of holes and make you look foolish when I tell the true story. My story is going to make a lot more sense than anything you come up with because I know the facts. You can save yourself a lot of embarrassment if you email me your phone #.
I'm leaving for some turkey hunting tomorrow so it might take a few days to get back to you. I'm only offering to do this because I hate to see somebody like you and LA spreading false stories about guys who are very hard working Idaho FNAWS directors.
As for your threat, "What I want is an appology and retraction of your comments reguarding the outfitter right here for all to see or things could get even more muddy.
Your call."
I'm trying to save you a lot of embarrassment but if you insist on looking foolish go right ahead!
Here's the only part of the story I didn't get completely correct (that I know of):
"The guys who spooked the rams aren't bird hunters. They didn't know the rams were around and they didn't see them."
They did know the rams were somewhere around there but they had split up to scout in different directions and one of them did see the sheep. The other guy was a couple miles away. And I should have said--"the guys who were ACCUSED of spooking the rams". The guy who did see the sheep probably wasn't the one who spooked them. Most likely it was the guide who was whistling and waving to him.
The outfitter, who's first initial is "M", didn't hear the story until about four or five days later. The guide did find a ram in that area a few days later but the hunter missed it. It didn't become a big incident until the season was over and the hunter hadn't got a ram. That's when he figured he'd make a big deal out of it all and try to get his money back, or another sheep tag from F&G. Naturally, he got zip.
And I should have been saying "the guide" instead of the "outfitter" most of the time because the outfitter wasn't there at the time of the incident. He didn't find out about it until the following Tuesday or Wednesday. The guide was running the camp.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-24-2003 21:48: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
Nut
New member
Thanks Ithaca. Public land means there shouldnt been anything more to it than to "get over it" and move on. Even a piss poor hunter like me knows that while scouting public land that others have access and can and will spook game. Have to adjust for that fact.
Best of Luck with your turkey hunting Ithaca
Best of Luck with your turkey hunting Ithaca
Ithaca 37
New member
Nut, Thanks. It looks like it's up to me to get the first Idaho turkey!
I'm taking a friend who's never been turkey hunting before, so he'll get the first one I call in (if I can call one
), then the second goes to another buddy who hasn't hunted them in Idaho for about six years, then it's my turn. So I got my work cut out for me in two days of hunting!
Muledeer4me
New member
"Public land means there shouldnt been anything more to it than to "get over it" and move on. Even a piss poor hunter like me knows that while scouting public land that others have access and can and will spook game. Have to adjust for that fact."
Good Post Nut.
We all understand that is the way it goes on public land,everyone except Ithaca when it happens to him.
He pitched the biggest fit over a turkey that got spooking ,he was hunting on public land close enough to an open "legal" road that some ATV rider's spoked HIS BIRD as he called it.
I think that's when we heard the first of the "Fat Lazy Slob ATV rider's" LOL
It should of been an non-issue get over it deal.
It's all in how you spin the tale and who's hunt get's bumped?
Good Post Nut.
We all understand that is the way it goes on public land,everyone except Ithaca when it happens to him.
He pitched the biggest fit over a turkey that got spooking ,he was hunting on public land close enough to an open "legal" road that some ATV rider's spoked HIS BIRD as he called it.
I think that's when we heard the first of the "Fat Lazy Slob ATV rider's" LOL
It should of been an non-issue get over it deal.
It's all in how you spin the tale and who's hunt get's bumped?
Ithaca 37
New member
Now MD4M's gonna jump in and muddy up the waters!! We're talking about guys wrongly accused of intentionally chasing sheep away from other hunters.
I was talking about ATV riders unintentionally messing up turkey hunts, but knew it was something that we had to deal with in that area, so we never went back there. And now F&G is requesting more consideration from ATV riders about the hoours they ride during hunting seasons and ,possibly, even more restrictions on where they can ride than the restrictions they already instituted a few months ago!
I was talking about ATV riders unintentionally messing up turkey hunts, but knew it was something that we had to deal with in that area, so we never went back there. And now F&G is requesting more consideration from ATV riders about the hoours they ride during hunting seasons and ,possibly, even more restrictions on where they can ride than the restrictions they already instituted a few months ago!
dgibson
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Public land means there shouldnt been anything more to it than to "get over it" and move on.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Amen.
BigHornyRam
New member
Ithaca,
My friend is the guide you are talking about. He was the one that was there, and watched your friends walk thru his camp, straight for the sheep. Your friends were caught playing dirty, and aren't even man enough to admit the truth. Didn't this incedent cause a rift amongst your organization? Didn't some members quit rather than stay involved with such an unethical bunch? Lot more unethical things happened after this too.
Ithaca, you claimed to know all the facts about this incedent and heard both side of the story, and yet decided to present only one side of case when you posted here. Why didn't you post both sides of the story and let the readers decide for themselves?
My friend is the guide you are talking about. He was the one that was there, and watched your friends walk thru his camp, straight for the sheep. Your friends were caught playing dirty, and aren't even man enough to admit the truth. Didn't this incedent cause a rift amongst your organization? Didn't some members quit rather than stay involved with such an unethical bunch? Lot more unethical things happened after this too.
Ithaca, you claimed to know all the facts about this incedent and heard both side of the story, and yet decided to present only one side of case when you posted here. Why didn't you post both sides of the story and let the readers decide for themselves?
Ithaca 37
New member
Paul, Since you know so much why don't you tell us both sides? Especially since you started the whole thing. And just to help you, I'm pretty sure they didn't walk thru the camp, they drove past it. They didn't stop, because most people don't stop at every camp they go by. Do you? They assumed (mistakingly) that the camp was archery hunters, but that was a natural assumption because it was the beginning of archery season and there are alot of archery hunters in that area. And if they thought the camp was archery deer hunters, why would they bump the sheep and make them harder to find for themselves later on?
Is your friend's first initial "L"? Better check on whether he was in camp to see them "walk" thru, because the guy who saw the sheep said "L" was watching the sheep when he first spotted them and sat down to look them over. If they knew where the sheep were why did they split up to look for them and one guy end up a couple miles away?
You'd be a lot better off talking this over on the phone, as you can probably see already.
Better check on the bird hunting story, too! Did they have shotguns and bird dogs when they "walked" thru camp? Why would they be starting to bird hunt in the evening? Most bird hunters start early in the morning, especially that time of year when it's hot and the dogs need lots of water even in the cool of the morning. No chukar hunter in his right mind would start hunting in the evening. There aren't any other kinds of birds to be hunting in that area, either, so don't try to claim they weren't hunting chukars.
See how your version isn't making sense? I'm trying to save you some embarrassment.
Why would bird hunters split up? And why would bird hunters be walking straight to where the sheep were? Why would bird hunters be carrying binoculars? Usually chukar hunters try to eliminate as much weight as possible. I don't know any who carry binoculars.
You'd be better off re-thinking whether you want to continue this. Since it's real obvious you don't know what happened.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-25-2003 12:01: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
Is your friend's first initial "L"? Better check on whether he was in camp to see them "walk" thru, because the guy who saw the sheep said "L" was watching the sheep when he first spotted them and sat down to look them over. If they knew where the sheep were why did they split up to look for them and one guy end up a couple miles away?
You'd be a lot better off talking this over on the phone, as you can probably see already.
Better check on the bird hunting story, too! Did they have shotguns and bird dogs when they "walked" thru camp? Why would they be starting to bird hunt in the evening? Most bird hunters start early in the morning, especially that time of year when it's hot and the dogs need lots of water even in the cool of the morning. No chukar hunter in his right mind would start hunting in the evening. There aren't any other kinds of birds to be hunting in that area, either, so don't try to claim they weren't hunting chukars.
See how your version isn't making sense? I'm trying to save you some embarrassment.
Why would bird hunters split up? And why would bird hunters be walking straight to where the sheep were? Why would bird hunters be carrying binoculars? Usually chukar hunters try to eliminate as much weight as possible. I don't know any who carry binoculars.
You'd be better off re-thinking whether you want to continue this. Since it's real obvious you don't know what happened.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-25-2003 12:01: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
BigHornyRam
New member
Ithaca,
Reread the first post on this tread to see who started it.
Paul
Reread the first post on this tread to see who started it.
Paul
Ithaca 37
New member
Paul, Here's the first mention of the sheep incident: "Case in point is the B. S. that happened in Idaho a few years back with its Governors tag. We as hunters cannot have situations like this too often if we hope to continue our sport." By you!
Here's another question about your claim. How's L know the sheep went to Oregon? Did he see them there after he was done guiding? Did he mention anything about his hunter missing a ram?
As you can see by now, you don't know anything about what happened and your story is full of holes. I've given you the chance to find out the truth and you don't want to take advantage of it. Don't waste anymore of our time.
And go back and review the part about calling me a liar. Turns out you're the one who doesn't know the facts.
I'm not going to continue this waste of my time. If you want to contact me I'll tell you the true story and give you the phone number of others who know it, too.
Here's another of your claims: "My friend is the guide you are talking about. He was the one that was there, and watched your friends walk thru his camp, straight for the sheep."
So the guide didn't say anything to the bird hunters about not going in that direction because they might spook the rams!? Does that make sense to you? Any guide with half a brain would have said something.
Give it up, Paul.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-25-2003 13:19: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
Here's another question about your claim. How's L know the sheep went to Oregon? Did he see them there after he was done guiding? Did he mention anything about his hunter missing a ram?
As you can see by now, you don't know anything about what happened and your story is full of holes. I've given you the chance to find out the truth and you don't want to take advantage of it. Don't waste anymore of our time.
And go back and review the part about calling me a liar. Turns out you're the one who doesn't know the facts.
I'm not going to continue this waste of my time. If you want to contact me I'll tell you the true story and give you the phone number of others who know it, too.
Here's another of your claims: "My friend is the guide you are talking about. He was the one that was there, and watched your friends walk thru his camp, straight for the sheep."
So the guide didn't say anything to the bird hunters about not going in that direction because they might spook the rams!? Does that make sense to you? Any guide with half a brain would have said something.
Give it up, Paul.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-25-2003 13:19: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
Well guys,, neither of your testimony would be admissable in court as heresay.. and it looks like you are trying this case on the board. So throw out the BS and bring the direct participants on here if you want to settle what happened. Of course if you just want an excuse to bicker with each other, carry on. For my part, I'm with Nut. It was public land, neither party had claim to anything other than what they could get. If game got scared off, then too bad. Stuff happens. If you are seriously interested in settling this issue, bring on the participants and let's get on with it.
BigHornyRam
New member
It,
Your the one who can't get the story right. One of your earlier post you said that the outfitter didn't have a back up plan and couldn't find his hunter another sheep. Later on you say that the hunter had an opportunity and missed. Which one?
You ever hear of a thing called a spotting scope? You can see things from a distance with these neat devises.
You never answered my question about the people who quit your group because of this. If it is as cut and dried as you make it out to be, why would anyone quit your group? Heres another question. Does Idaho have a wasted game law, or does that only apply to those who purchase regular priced tags? How about guides licenses? Don't you have to have guides license to guide in Idaho, or if you don't accept any money thats ok. Still have to have liability insurance right? Who paid for that? Lot's of questions IT. Lot's of people had questions about what went on.
Is your group anti-outfitter IT and if so why? Have you met L in person? Pretty top notch guy for a liar.
Paul
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-25-2003 15:10: Message edited by: Paul C ]</font>
Your the one who can't get the story right. One of your earlier post you said that the outfitter didn't have a back up plan and couldn't find his hunter another sheep. Later on you say that the hunter had an opportunity and missed. Which one?
You ever hear of a thing called a spotting scope? You can see things from a distance with these neat devises.
You never answered my question about the people who quit your group because of this. If it is as cut and dried as you make it out to be, why would anyone quit your group? Heres another question. Does Idaho have a wasted game law, or does that only apply to those who purchase regular priced tags? How about guides licenses? Don't you have to have guides license to guide in Idaho, or if you don't accept any money thats ok. Still have to have liability insurance right? Who paid for that? Lot's of questions IT. Lot's of people had questions about what went on.
Is your group anti-outfitter IT and if so why? Have you met L in person? Pretty top notch guy for a liar.
Paul
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-25-2003 15:10: Message edited by: Paul C ]</font>
Muledeer4me
New member
Paul,Ithaca is anti-everything he isnt in charge of.
"No sense continuing to spread rumors. Find out the truth and avoid losing credibility and making auction tags more controversial than they already are."
Maybe Ithaca should pratice what he preach's.
Remember the picture you posted Ithaca ? The one of the ATV club member's?
Of the members doing work to improve the trail ?You tryed to start the rumor that they were riding off the trail ,and doing damage.
You posted that picture and you were the one trying to start the rumor.
No need for YOU to get the facts straight is there? Oh no not when it applys to something you dont like,then all if fair HUH?
Talk about trying to make thing's more controversial then they already are LOL
Ithaca wrote the book on that one ,along with (Trust me I will tell you all you will ever need to know about everything) ROFLMAO.
Just more SPIN by Ithaca.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-25-2003 16:02: Message edited by: Muledeer4me ]</font>
"No sense continuing to spread rumors. Find out the truth and avoid losing credibility and making auction tags more controversial than they already are."
Maybe Ithaca should pratice what he preach's.
Remember the picture you posted Ithaca ? The one of the ATV club member's?
Of the members doing work to improve the trail ?You tryed to start the rumor that they were riding off the trail ,and doing damage.
You posted that picture and you were the one trying to start the rumor.
No need for YOU to get the facts straight is there? Oh no not when it applys to something you dont like,then all if fair HUH?
Talk about trying to make thing's more controversial then they already are LOL
Ithaca wrote the book on that one ,along with (Trust me I will tell you all you will ever need to know about everything) ROFLMAO.
Just more SPIN by Ithaca.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-25-2003 16:02: Message edited by: Muledeer4me ]</font>
Why don't we get a couple of the people that were right in the middle of this and bring them over to the board, they can remain anonomous as some do and just have a screen name, then we can get it out of the horses mouth(s) directly!!!!
1P== it kinda is an interesting story===== Here's the gist of the whole thing as understood, prob not the whole truth, by many disgusted sheep hunters in SW MT.
See, one guy bought an AUCTION tag, thus thinking he bought the ONLY tag in the state and he should have first dibs on the rams. Another guy also bought a different tag, thinking that he had first chance at the same ram. One bunch of "guides" broke up the hunt(maybe not the actual shooting) of other guy, thus creating a bunch of BS all over auction tags, big money outfitting and major bragging rights. Basically a bunch of schoolkids with a bunch of money but no Big ram to brag about. So, you can see their egos were severely damaged and they need to blame someone else.
See, one guy bought an AUCTION tag, thus thinking he bought the ONLY tag in the state and he should have first dibs on the rams. Another guy also bought a different tag, thinking that he had first chance at the same ram. One bunch of "guides" broke up the hunt(maybe not the actual shooting) of other guy, thus creating a bunch of BS all over auction tags, big money outfitting and major bragging rights. Basically a bunch of schoolkids with a bunch of money but no Big ram to brag about. So, you can see their egos were severely damaged and they need to blame someone else.
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