AR 15 and 10 type rifles

Jess

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Could not agree more.

When my dad died I was pretty depressed, everyone in my life was advocating going to therapy (which honestly figuring out how to set up/pay for was more stressful in some ways than the grief) and really all I wanted was for various family members to just carve out some time here and there to hang out have a beer and talk about dad. I was amazed how hard it was for anyone to give me some of their time to connect, I just felt like everyone was shoving me towards a therapist who I was essentially was just going to have the same conversation that I wanted to have with a loved one.

The experience for me highlighted how are it has to do with kids who are struggling, people who are suffering from PTSD, etc. I think as a society we really need to focus on putting down our phones, and carving out some time in our schedules for those around us, you can't legislate that so I'm not sure how you remedy the situation.

One of the big thoughts about things like addiction is lack of bonding. This is a real interesting article about how human connection can have a real positive affect on curbing drug addiction. I think it has its implications with some of these people involved in mass shootings as well. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-real-cause-of-addicti_b_6506936
 

wllm1313

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Now we are getting closer to the core of the matter. This is a cultural collapse, a destruction of the American way of life. It isn't just games and movies. Our humanities have changed.
I think you are absolutely right. Here is a quote from the quote @Jess posted, definitely worth a read.

"We have created human societies where it is easier for people to become cut off from all human connections than ever before."
 

rwc101

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I graduated high school a decade ago. The social isolation, bullying, and pressure was intense back then. I can't imagine what it would be like today. It's little wonder the shooters tend to be late teens/early twenties.
 

SticksMcKinley

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Mass shooting deaths have accelerated since it expired in '04.

That is correlation not causation.
View attachment 111726
I don't need a bar graph to tell me that a mass shooting(s) occurred under the AWB nor am I concerned with whatever point you're trying to make with numbers from who knows what source. The simple fact is, violence is going to occur outside of any legislation by whatever means the evil coward/zealot finds necessary and is capable of using. Guns don't matter. Gun control is a foolish knee jerk reaction to an extremely complex societal dilemma. Thank God I was born in a free republic and may God and what's left of our republic help keep it that way.
 

wllm1313

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I don't need a bar graph to tell me that a mass shooting(s) occurred under the AWB nor am I concerned with whatever point you're trying to make with numbers from who knows what source. The simple fact is, violence is going to occur outside of any legislation by whatever means the evil coward/zealot finds necessary and is capable of using. Guns don't matter. Gun control is a foolish knee jerk reaction to an extremely complex societal dilemma. Thank God I was born in a free republic and may God and what's left of our republic help keep it that way.
Point was that it was after the ban expired shootings seemed to increase, but lots of things changed since 04': smart phones, internet, etc etc.

So there's correlation but you can't really say the ban being removed was the cause of the increase.

Data source with the raw data, the graph was posted on WP with the link.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b9o6uDO18sLxBqPwl_Gh9bnhW-ev_dABH83M5Vb5L8o/htmlview?sle=true#gid=0
 

LuketheDog

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Yesterday I was listening to a group of hunters form three continents Africa...and Europe.
Why would I care what anyone from those places has to say about it? Their countries are by and large either socialist, extremely corrupt, or plain dictatorships...and there's a reason for that-none of them had a 2nd Amendment.
 

LWC55

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Point was that it was after the ban expired shootings seemed to increase, but lots of things changed since 04': smart phones, internet, etc etc.

So there's correlation but you can't really say the ban being removed was the cause of the increase.

Data source with the raw data, the graph was posted on WP with the link.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b9o6uDO18sLxBqPwl_Gh9bnhW-ev_dABH83M5Vb5L8o/htmlview?sle=true#gid=0
After the ban, was the increase in mass shootings by "assualt rifles" only or all weapons? Most mass shootings are not done with AR's.
 

cbang65

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Other food for thought: assuming all hoped for gun control measure were taken in the next 5 years. If in this instance we still maintain the 2nd amendment as a right to own firearms, how do you manage 320+ million individual's right to own said firearm? Without a registry of owners, violations of control laws would pile up like speeding tickets. The U.S. court system is already working beyond capacity as it is, let alone throwing in thousands of new offenders and criminal cases each year due to gun control violations. People complain that weed offenders are pointlessly bogging down the system... can you imagine how many John Does would end up in the same situation because they've still got a 30rd pmag?

The only conceivable way to maintain the right to own any firearm at all and not have a staggering affect on the judicial and corrections system would be a comprehensive list of where every gun in America is, and who owns it. You won't get enough accurate information on that list to justify the man power needed to enforce it, so the budget to enforce it wouldn't pass, etc. Rinse and repeat.

Regardless of if your for or against it, if this argument of gun control is ever going to make any progress beyond theory, people have to come up with legitimate ways to enforce the measures being called for. As it stands currently, I see people who are justifiably outraged at the rise in violence upon the American people, but have little more to remedy the situation than to say "ban it" and forget about the ramifications said action would have on an already strained legal system.
 

Jess

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Why would I care what anyone from those places has to say about it? Their countries are by and large either socialist, extremely corrupt, or plain dictatorships...and there's a reason for that-none of them had a 2nd Amendment.
I just think Europe was giving context of the conversation. I don't think there was any intent other than to tell a story.
 

Europe

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Why would I care what anyone from those places has to say about it? Their countries are by and large either socialist, extremely corrupt, or plain dictatorships...and there's a reason for that-none of them had a 2nd Amendment.
I dont want to derail this thread from the subject at hand but one would be amazed at the comments you hear "on average" from people from other countries. "You guys have it the best, dont ever let what happen to us happen to you"---this is a broad statement but one will hear it said in different ways about different subjects.

I also enjoyed the posts on this thread from people in Australia, New Zealand, and Canada

Jess, missed your post, yes and thank you
 

wllm1313

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Yeah fair point I read your statement and reacted it wasn't really a direct reply, I wasn't trying to twist your words.
 

wllm1313

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I dont want to derail this thread from the subject at hand but one would be amazed at the comments you hear "on average" from people from other countries. "You guys have it the best, dont ever let what happen to us happen to you"---this is a broad statement but one will hear it said in different ways about different subjects.

I also enjoyed the posts on this thread from people in Australia, New Zealand, and Canada
It what context though? Like from hunters in other counties. Something like 10% of the population of the US hunts, I imagine that it's even less in Europe, Asia/Oceania, and parts of Africa. When I've talked to average people in other counties about guns/hunting/ etc. The don't let this happen to you is mostly in regards to public land and having no place to hunt, by and large most people I've talked to like their gun laws and feel our are kinda bizzare.

Granted, I haven't hung out with a ton of hunters in other counties, so my perspective is probably skewed to the non-hunter.

I have any one I've interacted with abroad hunter or not say they wish their country had less restrictive hand gun laws.
 
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