AR 15 and 10 type rifles

Straight Arrow

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 10, 2009
Messages
3,130
Location
Gallatin Gateway, MT
Background: Lifelong shooter, gun owner, hunter, thirty-year US Army career, two tours Vietnam, having pulled the trigger on everything from a 38 cal pistol to the main gun on an M1 Abrams main battle tank.

Acknowledgement: Hunt Talk forum members are responsible, respectful, safe firearms owners and users. Most firearms owners are likewise safe and prudent in use of firearms.
Gun owners are highly protective of 2nd Amendment rights.

Statement: The significant increase in marketing of “tactical” gear and clothing, along with the proliferation and popularity of AR-15 and other “assault rifle” type weapons, emulating what has previously been employed by the military and law enforcement, has spawned a subset of gun owners who are much less respectful and safe. Such gear and weaponry obviously appeals to those who are more or less emotionally and mentally unstable. The widely disseminated video displays of blowing things up, rapidly firing at targets, not for accuracy but for destruction, only serves to stimulate and motivate “stupid human” tricks which shine a bad light on firearms usage. IMO those irresponsible firearms owners present a far greater threat to the 2nd Amendment than even the most staunch gun control advocates.

Further opinion: It is time to accept more stringent and thorough background checks, ban bump stocks, apply more oversight to ownership of “assault rifle” type weapons, and generally agree that there is a need to discuss firearms ownership in a more responsible way than merely the monotonous repetition of the phrase “slippery slope” with regard to 2nd Amendment rights. It is also time to enforce existing laws.

Message to the wannabe “tactical” testosterone laden gun-nut militants: “Step up, sign up, train up, and serve in a constructive venue!”
 
Last edited:

NoWiser

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
1,341
Location
Minnesota
Whether we like it or not, the generation who grew up afraid of being shot to death in their classroom will soon be leading this country and things will change in a big way.

I don't have a problem with AR-style weapon and high-capacity magazine bans. Will it stop mass shootings? No. Will it lower the death toll? Yes. Will it have any affect on my ability to overthrow a tyrannical government? Absolutely not.
 

rmauch20

Active member
Joined
Dec 27, 2016
Messages
264
Location
Western Kansas
Whether we like it or not, the generation who grew up afraid of being shot to death in their classroom will soon be leading this country and things will change in a big way.

I don't have a problem with AR-style weapon and high-capacity magazine bans. Will it stop mass shootings? No. Will it lower the death toll? Yes. Will it have any affect on my ability to overthrow a tyrannical government? Absolutely not.
Please explain how it would lower the death toll.
 

neffa3

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Messages
2,226
Location
Wenatchee
I'm not necessarily against increased regulation, but I already struggle with the idea that WA recently deemed my grandfathers Remington Woodsman, a .308 semi auto, an assault weapon.
 

Europe

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 26, 2018
Messages
452
Good comments, thoughts, and discussion

Other points that were brought up in the conversation I was in.

The effects of violent Video games, The effect of violent movies, The war on christianity and family values.

I can honestly say I have not viewed a video game since the original pac man and rarely see a movie ( the last one I saw in a movie theatre was "Sniper " ) and "family values" IMHO have not changed that much in the majority of normal, hard working families.

But, all came up in the discussion.

Again, I have read each post here. Excellent discussion gentlemen
 

ElkFever2

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
962
Location
Iowa
Gun control legislation is worthless. You just remove guns from responsible users. I'm for a massive mandatory buy back of all semi automatic weapons. Just don't expect safety to improve right away, or maybe not at all. But I think we should try something dramatic. Arming every teacher and employee is not working. So many places restrict conceal carry it's a joke. No guns on premises just tells the criminals they won't have any resistance.
 

Jess

Active member
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
107
I think we need to look at primary prevention methods. I work in education. I'm starting my 17th year. Here is just some anecdotal info that I've noticed. I teach health education so topics like depression, suicide prevention, trauma, etc. are very common place in my classroom. 1. When I first started teaching, I never heard one child talk about cutting. In the past 5 years, I've connected over 50 students to our guidance counselor for cutting. In the first 10 years of my teaching experience, we had 1 student committed for a psych eval. The last two years, we had 12, 4 of which had multiple visits. Our school psychologist is only in our building part time along with our school social worker. We have had more ED (emotionally disturbed) new diagnosis in the last 5 years for special ed than any other category. The amount of children on ant-anxiety meds would blow your mind.
The fact that all of these things that children are experiencing and the amount of mass shootings rising at an alarming rate is not a coincidence.
1. We don't have enough mental health professionals that are available to our families, both child and adult. In my school we have one counselor that services over 600 middle school students and we share a psychologist and a social worker with our other schools in our district.
2. An hour of counseling will easily be cancelled out if we then send our children right back to the same environment that justified counseling to begin with.
3. Suicide and depression rates are at an all time high
4. We as a country want to blame, not step up to the plate and lend a hand (the country is in desperate need of volunteers, foster homes, big brothers/sisters, adoptions, role models, mentors, even just a friend.) And I don't blame people for not wanting to get involved...it is a huge commitment and the baggage that some of these families and kids carry is daunting.
Lack of HUMANE human connection, IMO, is the root cause of all of this. Just think about any dysfunctional family that you know of. Is there HUMANE human connection in that family. Probably not.
 

wllm1313

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2015
Messages
4,520
Location
Aurora, CO
Arming every teacher and employee is not working.
This is the stupidest idea that has surfaced in our national discourse...

The Parkland resource officer is being sued for not charging into a hail of bullets and you expect Mr. Brown the 70 year old 3rd grade teacher who has never even seen a gun in real life and never even had a verbal argument with someone to all of a sudden fighting some kid with an AR to the death... and like she's making 35k.
 

Jess

Active member
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
107
This is the stupidest idea that has surfaced in our national discourse...

The Parkland resource officer is being sued for not charging into a hail of bullets and you expect Mr. Brown the 70 year old 3rd grade teacher who has never even seen a gun in real life and never even had a verbal argument with someone to all of a sudden fighting some kid with an AR to the death... and like she's making 35k.
I agree with this statement 100%. I am a teacher who is very comfortable around guns but I am not a cop, a military trained person, or a threat negotiator. Expecting teachers to perform these types of initiatives without training is asinine
 

wllm1313

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2015
Messages
4,520
Location
Aurora, CO
Lack of HUMANE human connection, IMO, is the root cause of all of this. Just think about any dysfunctional family that you know of. Is there HUMANE human connection in that family. Probably not.
Could not agree more.

When my dad died I was pretty depressed, everyone in my life was advocating going to therapy (which honestly figuring out how to set up/pay for was more stressful in some ways than the grief) and really all I wanted was for various family members to just carve out some time here and there to hang out have a beer and talk about dad. I was amazed how hard it was for anyone to give me some of their time to connect, I just felt like everyone was shoving me towards a therapist who I was essentially going to have the same conversation with that I wanted to have with a loved one.

The experience for me highlighted how hard it has to be for kids who are struggling, people who are suffering from PTSD, etc. I think as a society we really need to focus on putting down our phones, and carving out some time in our schedules for those around us, you can't legislate that so I'm not sure how you remedy the situation.
 
Last edited:

Gut Shot

Active member
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
492
Location
Banks of the Big Muddy

The hell it isn't accurate. Do not turn my words to fit your agenda. I said "violent crime" and you point to a bunch of graphs showing homicides only. And the homicide rate also went up, after the gun ban, until around 2001 with the exception of one year. Violent crimes, including assault, robbery, rape and murder have gone up with the exception of homicide.
 

wllm1313

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2015
Messages
4,520
Location
Aurora, CO
The hell it isn't accurate. Do not turn my words to fit your agenda. I said "violent crime" and you point to a bunch of graphs showing homicides only. And the homicide rate also went up, after the gun ban, until around 2001 with the exception of one year. Violent crimes, including assault, robbery, rape and murder have gone up with the exception of homicide.
"Violent crime is generally defined as including the offence categories of homicide, assault, sexual assault and robbery (both armed and unarmed).

As the most serious form of violence, and the least open to interpretation, homicide is considered the most reliable indicator of violent crime. Data on homicide are considered the most accurately and consistently collected of all violent crime data (Davies & Mouzos 2007; Indermaur 2000).

Crime data can only represent what people are willing to report, either in a formal sense (to police) or informally (as captured in crime victimisation surveys). With increased community awareness and understanding of violent crime, changes in the way the justice system manages violent offences, and a greater commitment on the part of victims to report experience of violence, the capacity for different sources of crime data to reflect real and consistent changes in specific crimes is strengthened. Nonetheless, some inconsistency still exists between the two primary sources of violent crime data. This, combined with the absence of recent national data on crimes such as assault and sexual assault, has made it difficult to determine whether there has been an increase in some forms of violent crime over the past 10-15 years or if experience of these violent crimes is just more likely to be reported now than it was in the past. Greater consistency between data sources in their definition of specific crimes is one suggested approach to smoothing out these differences (Carcach 2005: 323)."

https://aic.gov.au/publications/tandi/tandi359


111740
111741
111742
111743
 
Last edited:

wllm1313

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2015
Messages
4,520
Location
Aurora, CO
legislating, with the intent to appease, is a poor argument, as well as direction to take.

I would rather take my chances in a free society than live in a police state.
The second amendment was written at a time before any of the non-violent protest movements had occurred.

I think modern history suggests that armed citizens engaging violently with a government well ultimately be unsuccessful. With success defined as a transfer of power and the creation of a working government.

The more citizens violently oppose their governments with weapons the less success the movements seem to ultimately have. I'm not sure if the idea of having an armed populace to keep the government in check is valid anymore.

Successful examples... some violence but not civilians warring with the government.
- India from the British
- collapse of the USSR: Velvet revolution, Orange Revolution, Romania Revolution
-Arab spring: Kuwait, Lebanon, Morocco, Jordan, Tunisia, Oman

Failed
Arab Spring: Syria, Libya
 

Gut Shot

Active member
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
492
Location
Banks of the Big Muddy
The effects of violent Video games, The effect of violent movies, The war on christianity and family values.
Now we are getting closer to the core of the matter. This is a cultural collapse, a destruction of the American way of life. It isn't just games and movies. Our humanities have changed. How about music espousing violence, a generation of the poor growing up without fathers. Can you name a single famous painter who is still living? How about an American who is writing a book today that will be studied in 150 years? Life has become cheap in America, as it is in many third world countries.

Taking property from the law abiding because of the actions of criminals isn't going to stop the cultural rot that is destroying the country.
 
Top