BigHornRam
Well-known member
Just the unintended consequences of poorly written laws, activist judges, agency incompetence, and extreme environmental activists doing what they do.
There are easy ways to stop this nonsense.
All NM & Tonto AZ NF's ceases all wood extraction permits.
- Thread starter hank4elk
- Start date
There are easy ways to stop this nonsense.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Very few people have even a remote clue about the energy capabilities and economics of solar generated electricity. Hope Gila does his due diligence before "investing" into a 100% solar system. $350 for a delivered cord of wood is going to be a bargain compared to what he is proposing. But you know what they say about a fool and his money.
There was never any discussion of closing forests to other uses,that I saw. Lots of folks hiking the CDT & lots of folks hunting the whole time. Nor do I see anyone stopping hunting in NM anytime soon.
Gila
Well-known member
I was under the assumption that everyone knew that much about solar systems. I mentioned "completely solar" for myself and by that I meant going with an "off-grid" system. I will be on grid until power drops, then go "off-grid". The major cost of the off-grid is in the battery banks and inverters, switches. To survive I really only need enough battery juice to run the heat pump and the well.
Yes, they sure are looking for ways to eliminate hunting from public lands. The court case I posted wild earth guardians vs. Provencio proves that. All of the satellite enviro groups of the NRDC are anti-hunting, anti-fishing and anti-trapping.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
That was a conspiracy floated by Gila. He has a few of those.
Gila
Well-known member
If they were to close the gates to keep the wood from leaving the forest, that would definitely impact hunting. When you think about it that would be the only way the forest service could enforce the wood ban. I don't think those enviros had targeted hunting this time. They used the owl as an excuse but their real agenda is to hammer on the National Forest budget for obvious reasons.
Gila
Well-known member
You really do need to understand the difference between a conspiracy and an agenda.
Gila, we both know most folks do not even buy the tags from FS in NM...... I declined a FS job in the Pecos after a FS maint guy was killed for pointing out to a woodcutter he was cutting ,in a closed to woodcutting area.
Who has tags on the back of a load? I do. I would get stopped.
Yeah I know about "the agendas."
I have seen no roads closed or gates locked during the ban either, besides landowners. There could be other areas closed for other reasons such as seasonal closures.
Who has tags on the back of a load? I do. I would get stopped.
Yeah I know about "the agendas."
I have seen no roads closed or gates locked during the ban either, besides landowners. There could be other areas closed for other reasons such as seasonal closures.
Gila
Well-known member
They close in November for "resource protection" so the wood needs to be out by then. They will close early for inclement weather though. The commercial wood cutters will thin all summer but Sept and Oct are the busy "haulout" months. The FS wiill do PBs when conditions are right. They will close some roads during a PB but only for a week or so depending on the size of the area. Down here it is usually during the fall when they do PBs but not always. Hank, I know you know this stuff just posting for the outlanders so they understand what the access is like on the forests.
There are some areas too dangerous to go into. I don't ever want the misfortune of coming across the poachers.
There are some areas too dangerous to go into. I don't ever want the misfortune of coming across the poachers.
and they vote for which party and support which party????
BigHornRam
Well-known member
The Green Party?
Gila
Well-known member
I won't go down that rabbit hole. I just don't think there is any point to it.
You know many years ago the political spectrum was much different. The Sportmen's Caucus was comprised of "middle of the road" Dems and Repubs. But over the years the dems have marched further left to accomodate more radical issues while the right has marched more to the right to accomodate more radical issues. The polarization that has occured has really divided Sportsmen and Sportswomen. The democratic process is hamstrung as a result. You see ridiculous, radical bills that should never get out of committees being voted on along the party line. Just because the bill was sponsored by a dem, all of the dems will vote yes for it. Same goes for the repubs. Bi-partisan bills if they exist at all, are merely negotiations of a prior bill. We are caught in the middle.
You know many years ago the political spectrum was much different. The Sportmen's Caucus was comprised of "middle of the road" Dems and Repubs. But over the years the dems have marched further left to accomodate more radical issues while the right has marched more to the right to accomodate more radical issues. The polarization that has occured has really divided Sportsmen and Sportswomen. The democratic process is hamstrung as a result. You see ridiculous, radical bills that should never get out of committees being voted on along the party line. Just because the bill was sponsored by a dem, all of the dems will vote yes for it. Same goes for the repubs. Bi-partisan bills if they exist at all, are merely negotiations of a prior bill. We are caught in the middle.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Polarization only happens if YOU let it happen.
I also disagree that Sportsmen are as divided as you make it sound, in particular on the big picture. Sportsmen as a whole, all have pretty strong opinions and will argue over a 165 grain bullet being better than a 180 grain bullet from a 30/06 all day long. But, they largely agree on the big picture of conservation, public lands, habitat, wildlife and things that really are important.
I also disagree that Sportsmen are as divided as you make it sound, in particular on the big picture. Sportsmen as a whole, all have pretty strong opinions and will argue over a 165 grain bullet being better than a 180 grain bullet from a 30/06 all day long. But, they largely agree on the big picture of conservation, public lands, habitat, wildlife and things that really are important.
onpoint
Well-known member
Buzz, sucks, but I have to disagree. Maybe in the circles you (and I and a fair # of people on this forum - but take an honest and objective look at the ALL the participants who chime in.....) run in, there is agreement on the things in your last sentence.
But countrywide - I'd have to say that regional priorities, perceptions, and long held beliefs - yes among hunters - bears out a different picture. Particularly regarding the "things that are really important" - and what those things are. Ask a bunch of real "hard core" hunters if hunting issues are more important than taxation, religious beliefs, and government regulation - to name just a few topics.
Hell, right in BozeAngeles, there is quite a bit of difference in how the hunting community "sees things". I hear these differences continually.
Reminds me of the many who constantly assert (about the current American culture) "this is not who we are". It's akin to covering ones eyes so no one will see you.
Believe me, I wish it wasn't so - I spent a career working for sportsmen/women and our hunting/angling resources. But my experiences tell me that "we" are as polarized as the country is..............
But countrywide - I'd have to say that regional priorities, perceptions, and long held beliefs - yes among hunters - bears out a different picture. Particularly regarding the "things that are really important" - and what those things are. Ask a bunch of real "hard core" hunters if hunting issues are more important than taxation, religious beliefs, and government regulation - to name just a few topics.
Hell, right in BozeAngeles, there is quite a bit of difference in how the hunting community "sees things". I hear these differences continually.
Reminds me of the many who constantly assert (about the current American culture) "this is not who we are". It's akin to covering ones eyes so no one will see you.
Believe me, I wish it wasn't so - I spent a career working for sportsmen/women and our hunting/angling resources. But my experiences tell me that "we" are as polarized as the country is..............
BuzzH
Well-known member
Just to clarify, I wasn’t talking about the other issues you mentioned like religious beliefs and taxes. I agree that sportsmen in regard to issues outside conservation are just as polarized. But speaking specifically about access issues, habitat, public lands I don’t believe there is even close to the level of polarization that exists when those same hunters start dragging other shit into the discussion.
Seems to me that there is a shared value of things that are important specific to wildlife, conservation, etc. that a vast majority of sportsmen agree on. I also recognize there are always have been and always will be differences of opinion on how we get there. But, imo that’s wayyyy different than something most would consider even close to polarization.
I couldnt give a shit less about someone’s view of taxation, religion, abortion, political affiliation, etc when I’m working on a conservation or hunting issue. I only care about their view on the specific issue at hand.
onpoint
Well-known member
"But speaking specifically about access issues, habitat, public lands I don’t believe there is even close to the level of polarization that exists when those same hunters start dragging other shit into the discussion".
Therein lies the problem. Except for when only like minded people show up for an issue/discussion, I commonly witness this very thing get in the way. Maybe you don't see this exact thing happening as often as I.
Therein lies the problem. Except for when only like minded people show up for an issue/discussion, I commonly witness this very thing get in the way. Maybe you don't see this exact thing happening as often as I.
