AFRICA 2005, ROLL CALL.

[Moosie]

Here is a tentative list :

Moosie - Kudu, Blesbok, Impala, Warthog, Zebra, (Nyala, Springbok, Waterbuck)

Cali - Kudu, Eland, Sable

Kraven - Gemsbok, Springbok, Blessbok, Bluewildebeest, Impala

Elkgunner - Kudu, Zebra, Warthog, Mir cat

Danr - Impala, ?

Deerking - ?

HEre are a few Critters I came up with and a Few people interested. I'm curious who would be Serious, I have 3 outfitters giving me quotes for 2005 but I need 3 things.

1. WHO is going ?
2. What (5) animals would you like to Shoot and in What order
3. Who is serious !!

LET the games Begin !!!!!

 

[Nut]

I am serious (for a second or two).

Once I know the particulars and deposit amounts and when we would be going exactly.

Since a Cape Buff is not on the agenda

it really doesnt matter to me what critters I would take as long as I was there.

Kudu,Impala and some of the boks would do nicely

 

[Kraven]

You know me man Im game for this hunt and heck I dont care what order I shoot the animals.Might even trade an animal for a Steenbok.

 

[JoseCuervo]

I am definitely in, and as you are talking to the outfitters, let them know I will be coming over in 2004 on a scouting trip. Likely in June, and it will be 1/2 hunting, 1/2 touring the game parks taking pictures and experiencing So. Africa with my 11 year old.

The Kudu-Warthog-Zebra-Mir Cat list is likely the 2004 list (maybe Gemsbok instead of Kudu), and then another critter or two.

For 2005, I am a bit flexible, as the goal would be for "representative animals of Africa". But Kudu, (or Gemsbok), Black Wildebeast (maybe Blue), and Blesbok would all be considered, plus others, (Impala, Caprice, Nova, Monte Carlo, Camaro...

)

But I am not sure I will be Serious. Is that a requirement? As it seems a bit stuffy and pompus.

 

[trophy_killer]

I think I wanna go over there. I'll hunt every animal over there including elephant. But for a weapon I wanna use my Bowie knife!!

Sounds like you guys will have a heck of a time if you can get this hunt to work, only one question what is a "Sable"??

 

[Kraven]

Greg this is a Sable

 

[JJHACK]

One of the things to keep in mind when deciding on what game you want is that not all game is indiginous to all areas. Imagine somebody coming to America to hunt Big horn sheep in Florida. How embarrasing would that be? Yet it's common in Africa to shoot non-indiginous species in a put and take game farm. Think carefully about that before you travel that far to hunt for released "cheap" game.
The Northern Province is home to the largest populations of various speices in the world. However there are no Springbok or Black Wildebeest. It's the fringe of the habitat for Blesbok and Gemsbok. Those aniamls exist in huntable numbers but are not in the core of their habitat.

There are countless places that will supply you with all the game you want in one location. However you will be hunting a "stocked" game farm shooting Put and take animals. Your choice, you have to live with the decision.

If you so choose to hunt indiginous wild game which occurs naturally then the decisions on what game you hunt becomes critical. On a multiple species hunt were a guy wants game indiginous to the north and the south you will loose a day of hunting for travel from one location to another. From the Northern Province to the Freestate will require a days drive. Something to keep in mind on a ten day hunt.

You have two days travel from the USA to South Africa. The day you arrive will be a hunting day. The time change is brutal for some people but can be fixed with proprer planning. If you consider that 5-6 days in the north for wild game would likely give you the time for 3-4 animals, unrushed but certainly not holding out for monster animals only. Then a day of travel to the free state for other species leaving you with 2.5 to 3.5 days for those animals before you have to be to the Airport on day 10 for the flight home. The flight leave Joburg at 8PM so you have a good part of the morning on the last day to hunt. I prefer to be at the airport early as there is only one flight per day. They are also full 99% of the time. If you miss your flight and the next several days are full you could be stuck in Africa for a while at the airport. My hunters are brought to the airport early to be sure there are no flat tires or traffic problems to struggle through.

This schedule makes for a 2 week trip, which is common for most Americans. The real determining factor on cost is figuring out the animals you hunt. The daily fee is based on days and the trophy fee's are based on animals. So everyone involved would need to know the days you wish to spend in each location and the game you desire to shoot.

My typical hunting package for multiple species plains game hunting is as follows.

10 days all inclusive from pickup at the airport until we bring you back to the airport.

Meals, open bar, transportation, skinners trackers, laundry every single day, maid service every day, private bath in each room, etc. etc. It's the finest lodging you will find in South Africa, This I promise you!

The 5 animals which are included are:
Kudu
impala
warthog
and two of the following: Gemsbok, blue wildebeest, zebra, red hartebeest.
The cost for the package is 4500.00 bucks and does not include airfare. I have access to brokered tickets which are likely the best deal you will find. I arranged 27 flights this past season. Several guys said "I'll get my own airfare. I know some travel people". All eventually used my ticketing as nobody could beat the price. As an example from Seattle to Joburg I paid 1400.00 bucks round trip. Who knows next year what airfare will be?

Additional animals can be shot for trophy fee's alone and Females of Kudu and impala can be had for cheap if you just want to shoot lots of game. We must keep the population in check. Impala females 6 for 500 bucks and Kudu cows 250 bucks each. If you folks decide to hunt some Freestate species and travel to the south then we would need to alter the cost based on the days you hunt in the north. I doubt a package of animals would be a practical idea because with only 6 days there is no way for sure to "package" lots of game in a short period. Maybe a three animal 6 day package? We can work it out once we know who desires what game. You may notice I work with two hunting days per animal. It's real hunting and not stocked game. We cannot just go out and shoot animals in a pasture setting. It's a bit of work to collect the game. The weather plays a huge roll in success as well. Bad weather shuts down hunting for several days at a time. That is very rare in May through August but it has been known to happen once or twice.

This past season I had several hunters shoot more then 10 animals in 10 days. I also had a couple hunters holding out for exceptional animals that went home with out. One in particular had chances at several record book entries and passed all of them for a monster we knew was there. I had yet another hunter who killed 11 animals in 7 days and then held out to day 10 for his Kudu and shot a dandy 58" beast. It's tough to hold out for a monster and risk going home without one!

I'm spilling the beans on this up front for you to go out and drum up a better deal. You can find better prices for Put and take game but you will not find better accomadations, or natural wild game at this knid of price. I will also be on site to assure you that everything stated comes true and there will be no surprises. This is the way I operate the business. I'm not a booking agent, I'm a Professional hunter and owner. I'll be there on site and accountable to you.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 06-25-2003 08:32: Message edited by: JJHACK ]</font>

 

[JB Florida]

OK Guys......What dates are you planning?

JJ...WELL PUT!
Someone who will be responsible goes a long way with me!

 

[Moosie]

JB, I think around JUNE ?!?! But I'm just pulling months out my keester

I see the order as this. Figure out the Core group thats going, Work on a package for the Group. the Package will solid up the Cost and Time.

Then it's the Planning stage of the "FINE DETAILS".

So thats why the list is out here...

 

[Calif. Hunter]

If Sable is an $8500 trophy, I'll have to pass and settle for a gemsbuck. I do want an impala and one other antelope. An eland would be nice. Warthog...if I have to.

A zebra rug might be nice on the wall.

From what I hear, June is probably best. Do we want too large a group, or to put it another way - will one area hold enough game for a big group of HuntTalk game hogs?

It would be nice to have things set up now, so we could start sending the money now.

 

[JB Florida]

Moosie,
I asked because of my Summer Job

I can go in early may but not june

You guys settle on a date an I work it in if I can.....I still want a waterbuck & Bushbuck
And JJ, are you in the northern province?
I ask because a nayala would be nice but you probably have to travel to get one.

What about leopard?

 

[JJHACK]

I read the posts up to this point and I'll try to remember the questions.

May and June are the best months possible. The Rut is on for several species. The last 15 days of May to the 15th of June are the best weeks.

I'm in the Northern Province and we have a fair population of Nyala. They will cost 2000.00 for the trophy fee and can be had cheaper in Zulu land where the core of thier habitat is located. Unfortunately there are not as many of the other species in Zulu land. We had three hunters wanting Nyala this season and two hunters shot them. One went without waiting on a bigger bull. He passed several 25" bulls. The biggest one we shot was 27.5" the photo is posted here on this forum.

Eland is the hardest animal to hunt in the province. They are hunted like elephant. You will track them every day on foot until you find them and get a shot. Plan a long hunt passing on everything you see until the Eland is killed. They are the greatest challange of all the plains game. For this reason they are not a "package" animal. You will book a hunt for one species and then take what you want after the Eland is killed. It's also going to be a 1X1 hunt because it's all foot work. It's possible to shoot one in an hour out in the bush if luck is with you. However I have hunted hard for 5 plus days just to get close enough to see one and not shoot it!

Plan a 10 day hunt minimum for Eland. Or buy the package and kill the eland as an adder if you cross paths with one. The first group I had this year was with a guy who had no idea how hard eland were to get. The first night 10 minutes before dark they showed up at the water. One was a huge 35" plus blue bull. I asked him and pleaded with him to shoot it. He did not! When we returned to camp and my partner heard we saw a big bull and did not shoot, he cursed in Afrikaans and said how is it that the guys who don't shoot see bulls at the water and the guys who dream of Eland hike for a week and never get a shot!

Depending upon the exchange rate I may be able to do Sable for 7500. I will not quote a price until we close in on the dates so the Exchange rate is more secure for us. I lost money on Sable this year. We could sell some bulls at auction for 10,000 US dollars and I had sold the hunts at 7500.00, I won't make that mistake again! 5K down the drain.

I strongly recommend the end of may Beginning of June. I already have 2 people booked for the end of May, and two people booked for mid May. The rest are in June. Our lodge can take 6 Hunters at each lodge.

Hold on this is for 2004 and you guys are wanting 2005. I am wide open in 2005 I don't book that far in advance. I would prefer 2004 as I can book and hold prices we are talking about now. 2005 is a long way off.

If I missed something I'll post again.

 

[JJHACK]

Bushbuck and waterbuck are no problem, Leopard will be a 14 day hunt, about 8500.00 alone and depends upon getting a permit.

If I may suggest as a group you guys stick with plains game and all try to arrive and hunt as a group. With some guys wanting hunts that require special arrangments like Leopard and Eland it's not really a "general plains game hunt" but more of a custom tailored individual hunt.

Don't misunderstand the eland issue we have tons of huge eland. However their lifestyle is unusual in that they have no functional home range they are here today and 10 miles away the next day. Most other animals will settle into a moderate home range. Not Eland, Buffalo, Elephant, or some other species. That makes for tough hunting in roadless areas on foot folloing thier spoor.

SOme over stocked put and take properties will have you drive up and shoot one. We don't have that kind of hunting. In the Easern cape or the Freestate they live in the wide open and can be seen from miles away. There you can drive as close as possible and then make a short stalk and take a long shot. Your choice on the kind of hunt you want.

 

[Calif. Hunter]

If eland is taken as an extra animal on a package hunt, how much extra does it cost? (I would want to know before I pulled the trigger - Moosie wouldn't even hesitate.)

 

[JJHACK]

Eland bulls are 1800.00 bucks. I can provide a list price of all the game when we get closer to the dates. Problem with doing this 2 years in advance are the unknowns with the exchange rates and the cost of doing business that far in advance.

We typically work with 10-12 months advance not 2 years out. I'm not going to tell you what you want to hear right now just to screw with you later on costs when we are close to the dates. I'm telling you straight up it's a bit too far out to guarantee you some discounted rates when the cost of doing business is unknown that far away. The exchange rates killed us this year and we were lucky to just survive the season. Lot's of guys who sold cheap hunts last year are going under this year because of it.

Last year at this time the exchange was 10:1 which is how we based our prices. However when the hunters came in and payed the balance with the exchange at 7.5:1 we had a 25% loss off the top!

Sure it works both ways but we have not seen the exchange higher then 10:1 so we never made any huge profits on the exchange rate yet.

I would be willing to work with anyone on the price of the hunt if they pay in US dollars instead of Travellers checks. Dollars can be held and the exchange rate watched for positive changes. Travellers checks cost us money to deposit and have to be cashed within a certain time, or they are void.

We can talk about this futher if your interested. Anyone wanting to book for 2004 can lock in now with me. I am making the plans for the 2004 seasons from now until we are full at 24 hunters or so.

I will use the package price I gave for 2005 for you guys but I need deposits to hold it. Beginning of 2004 or later if prices change I cannot go back to these prices then. Everyone wants the cheapest price and the best hunting and accomadations. I will work with you to do that. However the reality is I need to keep the lights on and pay the staff a fair wage to remain in business. As you all get closer to the game and the days you wish to spend with in each location we can more accurately sort out the prices.

The Key is to decide what animals you want to hunt. That will give us an idea of where you will hunt and for how long in each location. Then we will have a foundation to build on for the whole group.

 

[Calif. Hunter]

I think we can all understand the problem with pricing this far in advance. I just wanted a ballpark figure to know if an eland was $7000 extra or $1000 extra.

Once we get things firmed up and a final decision on who were going with and the dates, etc. - I'd just send you deposits (regular checks) for you to cash and hold on account and determine the actual final price based upon the exchange rate at the time of the hunt or time of final price quotes from you. That way I don't spend the $$$ on some minor "emergency" or a gun on sale or something else.

Since I am a complete rookie on Africa, I'd just want a couple big horned critters, one or two that would look nice as shoulder mounts and the rest as rugs (zebra?) or Euro mounts. I am an easy guy to work with.

 

[JJHACK]

If you want a couple animals with big horns then the Gemsbok and Kudu will be your two likley candidates. You will shoot a Kudu 50" or better, and there are plenty of Gemsbok 35" and better for bulls and close to 40 inch for cows. Eland are huge bodied animals. They don't have the impressive horns proportional to their size that Kudu have. Even Impala and red hartebeast have bigger horns proportional to their body size. Never forget the Blue wildebeast. "the poor mans buffalo". I was charged by a single animal this season and it was a Wildebeast at 40 yards. He was actually charging my client, not me. I shot him through the shoulder and when he fell the impact of his body in the sand caused the sand to spray up and hit my client in the legs. Wildebeast, Gemsbok and sable are nothing to fool with when wounded!

There are lots of great game animals to hunt here. All of them have a different look and require a different hunting tactic which make the African Safari so exciting every single day.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 06-27-2003 14:14: Message edited by: JJHACK ]</font>

 

[Flytier]

What is the game bird situtation like there? Is it feasable to hunt birds? Anything over there look good on the wall?

 

[JoseCuervo]

Put me down for the Blue Wildebeast. The look cool, and even better, you have the opportunity for some good old fashion "African Adventure"...JJ, you are a good aim with that Back-up gun, aren't you..

 

[JJHACK]

Bird hunting is great but difficult on a short duration hunt where big game is involved. Should you stay in one place for the whole ten days and intend 5-6 big game animals there should be time at the end for birds. If you intend to split the hunt in the Northern Province and Freestate I can't see enough free time to spend on birds where the big game is a priority.

I'm just telling you how it is based on many years of hunting. Many Outfitters will tell you "sure we can hunt birds" but you will never pick up a shotgun the whole trip becuase the big game will take you to the end of the days you have available.

Time permitting you can hunt birds but with a 2X1 hunt for most guys that means both hunters must be finished with big game before bird hunting starts because your hunting together the whole time.