WY proposed regulation change Disabled Veterans!

[Addicting]

There needs to be a better way to make the distribution more fair.

I would love to see it become a lottery. High demand tags when donated, G&F has to accept interested participants for 1 week from the date it becomes publicly posted. Then it is placed in a randomizer and awarded. MSG are once in a lifetime.

 

[appaloosa]

If you are a disabled Veteran you need to read the proposed rule changes in WY. I know this is a very small crowd that qualifies for extension permits and donated licenses.

But as one who uses these it has been God send that allowed healing of several Veterans.

If these proposing these changes only knew what it takes to be in the 100% bracket. Or how much healing takes place around camp when Vets can get together with donated tags.

This program hasn’t made any dents in overpopulation issues. Yet it’s getting axed because we don’t show outward physical signs.


I would encourage you to read them and comment.

Public Input | Wyoming Game & Fish Department

We invite your feedback on proposed changes to our regulations. For inquiries about the proposed regulatory changes, reach out to your local Department Regional Office. Please note that questions submitted through the forum below will not receive a response.

wgfd.wyo.gov

These proposed changes are absolutely necessary to prevent the abuse that is happening with the current regulation. Last fall, I ran into a "disabled veteran" trailing llamas out of the high country with a world class mule deer two days before the season opened. Packing in seven miles to hunt mule deer doesn't strike me as someone who needs a five day season extension to overcome their limitations.
If you have a bonafide, legitimate, PHYSICAL disability that limits your ability to participate in the regular season and would benefit from a five day season extension, you can still get a doctor's recommendation and qualify.
I mean this with all due respect in the world to every veteran and anyone who suffers from the adverse mental affect of serving, but it was not the intended purpose of the original regulation and is outside of the spirit of the intended exemption.

 

[Addicting]

These proposed changes are absolutely necessary to prevent the abuse that is happening with the current regulation. Last fall, I ran into a "disabled veteran" trailing llamas out of the high country with a world class mule deer two days before the season opened. Packing in seven miles to hunt mule deer doesn't strike me as someone who needs a five day season extension to overcome their limitations.
If you have a bonafide, legitimate, PHYSICAL disability that limits your ability to participate in the regular season and would benefit from a five day season extension, you can still get a doctor's recommendation and qualify.
I mean this with all due respect in the world to every veteran and anyone who suffers from the adverse mental affect of serving, but it was not the intended purpose of the original regulation and is outside of the spirit of the intended exemption.

Judging that they don’t look qualified enough. You are not their doctor. You have no idea what they face. This is the actual problem with those proposals.

Judging a book by its cover is this in a nutshell.

 

[Addicting]

I will concede it is easy to want to jump to conclusions on scenarios where you see things like @appaloosa saw. I’m guilty of it, too. Until I went thru the process, I didn’t know. What it takes to get to the 100% level is significant. Very few Veterans make it into that bracket. While some are there because of Mental illness, few are there solely for that.

Most of us have pages of stuff that eventually added up to 100%. Just as SFC B posted about. Looking at me sitting here you would never know I have 2 pages worth of crap. I have pain killers on every hunt just to walk.

 

[BuzzH]

Judging that they don’t look qualified enough. You are not their doctor. You have no idea what they face. This is the actual problem with those proposals.

Judging a book by its cover is this in a nutshell.

I don't think anyone is saying they aren't qualified for a donated tag, just whether or not they actually need the 5 day extension.

I'm pretty favorable on the donated tags, I've donated a tag in AZ myself for a young girl with cancer. But, I'm a lot less sure about a perfectly physically fit person needing a season extension. In particular when being used year after year by the same people for creaming the top animals.

IMO, these are two entirely different issues. I also think if you want to maintain support for the donated tags, there needs to be tightened regulations on the season extension.

I have no problem with a hunter in a wheelchair, suffering from MS, etc. and truly MOBILITY impaired getting a head start. Again, its too bad this even needs to be discussed, but nearly every time we start making exceptions there are abusers. It's also unfortunate that we have to make the rules for the exceptions that abuse the systems that are designed for good.

 

[Pucky Freak]

Sorry, hard to follow. I have a decent chance of drawing a WY tag next week that I won’t use, and I was thinking about donating it. If I’m following correctly, I can’t pick who it goes to, it goes into a pool with all the other returned tags, and then some grifter NPO’s skim off all the best tags for their buddies?? And DAV’s aren’t even there own category anymore to get the tags??

 

[Addicting]

I'm a lot less sure about a perfectly physically fit person needing a season extension. In particular when being used year after year by the same people for creaming the top animals.

Problem is you or I cannot distinguish who is perfectly physically fit. We have to rely on the multiple doctors who awarded the 100% rating.

Is it abused? I would agree a small percentage do abuse it. But at the cost of eliminating for those who actually do need it. That is a tough sell.

 

[Nick87]

Again, its too bad this even needs to be discussed, but nearly every time we start making exceptions there are abusers

Ain't that the truth. With everything.

 

[Addicting]

Sorry, hard to follow. I have a decent chance of drawing a WY tag next week that I won’t use, and I was thinking about donating it. If I’m following correctly, I can’t pick who it goes to, it goes into a pool with all the other returned tags, and then some grifter NPO’s skim off all the best tags for their buddies?? And DAV’s aren’t even there own category anymore to get the tags??

Sort of. It is FCFS and the NP can hold a tag for 15 days. If you donate it direct to them they get to choose in those 15 days who gets it. It will never hit the public list.

If you donate it directly to the state it will hit the list. There it is FCFS. The NP control who they will give a letter to supporting the transfer. They will only give letter to their “guy”.

How you get around it is you pick the “GUY”. You hold the tag and let the Veteran get their stuff together. You mail all three documents in all stapled together. If a NP says they won’t do it that way just go to a different one. Any NP can do it.

 

[BuzzH]

Problem is you or I cannot distinguish who is perfectly physically fit. We have to rely on the multiple doctors who awarded the 100% rating.

Is it abused? I would agree a small percentage do abuse it. But at the cost of eliminating for those who actually do need it. That is a tough sell.

Is it though? I would say someone that is hiking in 7 miles one way with llamas is perfectly physically fit. I would also say you're going to have a hard time convincing me that type of person needs a 5 day head start.

The disabled person with no visible 100% rating is not being excluded from getting the tag or the ability to participate in the hunt. Just the ability to hunt the 5 day head start.

Is the fight worth having and risking the whole program going away for a 5 day head start? Again it's flat disheartening that one group of veterans is basically screwing another group of veterans all over something that is designed to help ALL veterans.

It's just flat sad and unfortunately our commission and Wyoming citizens are going to have to address this crap because of the few.

 

[thomas89]

Relying on doctors is also not a sure thing anymore, as many of these law firms designed for getting vets 100% ratings have doctors in their pockets.

I'm good with limiting season date exemptions to those with physical disabilities. A person should have no problem proving, "hey I've got X, Y, and Z, this is why having a jump on the season would be beneficial." I'm not cool with some fat FOBBIT who's got sleep apnea and has PTSD from a non-combat deployment getting a 5 day jump on the season, I'm just not.

There is also an issue when rather than blatantly calling out an org for gatekeeping, it becomes a "go find the info yourself". The fight needs to be against that NP abusing the system, NOT people trying to bring light to the issue.

I had ZERO luck getting a hold of Hunting With Heroes when I was trying to get a tag. Reaching out via several avenues, I heard nothing back. One of the biggest NP's in WY for veterans tags and crickets. I believe they still have years worth of a waitlist to get vets out hunting. They sure are not shy trying to get donors come late summer/fall.

Unfortunately it's the same with many vet orgs around the country. There is a veterans only duck hunt in Horicon Marsh in Wisconsin that has very much become a good old boys club with many of the same guys returning year after year, rather than the intent of helping vets heal through the outdoors.

 

[Addicting]

Relying on doctors is also not a sure thing anymore, as many of these law firms designed for getting vets 100% ratings have doctors in their pockets.

I didn’t think about that, you have a good point.

 

[Addicting]

A person should have no problem proving, "hey I've got X, Y, and Z, this is why having a jump on the season would be beneficial

AZ has that and just redid it for Crossbows. WY could use something similar above and beyond the VA letter.

 

[thomas89]

Sorry, hard to follow. I have a decent chance of drawing a WY tag next week that I won’t use, and I was thinking about donating it. If I’m following correctly, I can’t pick who it goes to, it goes into a pool with all the other returned tags, and then some grifter NPO’s skim off all the best tags for their buddies?? And DAV’s aren’t even there own category anymore to get the tags??

You can pick who you want the tag to go to. It's not terrible difficult, just a bit clunky!

 

[thomas89]

I didn’t think about that, you have a good point.

We're on the same team here man, hope I'm not ruffling too many feathers. No hard feelings.

 

[Addicting]

We're on the same team here man, hope I'm not ruffling too many feathers. No hard feelings.

We are good, I just can’t toss the new director under the buss yet. He has to have time to right the ship.

 

[BuzzH]

We are good, I just can’t toss the new director under the buss yet. He has to have time to right the ship.

I think we know what the problems are and if you have ideas on how to address them and need help...just let me know via PM.

 

[Lostinthewoods]

Judging that they don’t look qualified enough. You are not their doctor. You have no idea what they face. This is the actual problem with those proposals.

Judging a book by its cover is this in a nutshell.

Addicting.

I’m not saying this to derail your thread, but I do want to throw a differing perspective.

For years I have struggled with our “peers” serving and who have served.

After the endless encounters of pieces of $$$$ who openly talk about playing the system, endless content out there about how to scam your evaluations, and more, it’s turned me very sour about this subject.
The quickest way to instantly make me not like you in the military was when you started “playing the game” or indicating “you are playing the game.”


So I never judge a book by a cover or instantly think negative about a veteran, but id be lying if I didn’t say I’m a little desensitized when I meet some veterans and have a wall up .

The amount of fake, shitty, scammy, liars out there around this makes me sick.
Now I’m reading organizations take advantage of it as well.

It’s just a frustrating topic.

I’m trying to figure out why I’m actually posting this because my comment isn’t worth anything and wasn’t asked for. I also don’t want to take from the main purpose of this thread. But I guess it’s for me to say some people saying stuff like Thomas said isn’t to attack all veterans. They may have just experienced someone like I met.

For context, I take more meds than a pharmacy so I can function throughout the day, sleep at least a few hours a night, and not put a bullet in my head.

 

[Addicting]

Addicting.

I’m not saying this to derail your thread, but I do want to throw a differing perspective.

For years I have struggled with our “peers” serving and who have served.

After the endless encounters of pieces of $$$$ who openly talk about playing the system, endless content out there about how to scam your evaluations, and more, it’s turned me very sour about this subject.
The quickest way to instantly make me not like you in the military was when you started “playing the game” or indicating “you are playing the game.”


So I never judge a book by a cover or instantly think negative about a veteran, but id be lying if I didn’t say I’m a little desensitized when I meet some veterans and have a wall up .

The amount of fake, shitty, scammy, liars out there around this makes me sick.
Now I’m reading organizations take advantage of it as well.

It’s just a frustrating topic.

I’m trying to figure out why I’m actually posting this because my comment isn’t worth anything and wasn’t asked for. I also don’t want to take from the main purpose of this thread. But I guess it’s for me to say some people saying stuff like Thomas said isn’t to attack all veterans. They may have just experienced someone like I met.

For context, I take more meds than a pharmacy so I can function throughout the day, sleep at least a few hours a night, and not put a bullet in my head.

I know that feeling and we need to have a beer at a campfire. You cannot let what negative others do consume you.

 

[SagebrushSlayer]

I sent my comments in against removing the hunting season extension permit.

One option in NP abusing the system for this would to be putting a cap to the number of non resident 100% veterans that utilize this benefit. Put a limit on D/E/A For once every 3, 5, 7 years before eligibility resets.

The number of 100% veterans who are able to utilize this benefit and are residents of the State of WY should not be affected. No other western state that I’m aware of provides the hunting opportunities that WY does.