Wild horses/BLM land

[Europe]

I recently had a conversation with a couple of politicians about this and thought before I spoke to them again, I would ask the ladies and gentlemen of this forum for their thoughts.

For those who dont follow this or perhaps are not aware of the problem, please let me give you a very brief summary.

There are approx 100000 wild horses and burros grazing on BLM land throughout 10 states ( approx half in Neveda ). Another 50000 are being held and fed by the Govt. ( which means you, via your tax dollars ) in an "adoption" program.

It is estimated that along with feeding the other wildlife that are feeding on the BLM land, the "land" could support approx 27000 wild horses and burros ---plus another 3000 in the adoption program ( which is what is estimated to be the number of horses adopted each year ) BTW, currently we are giving each person who adopts one of these animals 1000 dollars to help care for it.

I know few will remember this, but during World War II, horse meat was being served on a lot of dinner tables across America, but after the war those who were against eating horse meat, labeled Harry Truman, "Horse Meat Harry" and horse meat disappeared from the dinner tables across most of America. Again in the 70's horse meat returned to some markets, but the stores selling horse meat were "surrounded" by people riding horse's and carrying signs and horse meat once again disappeared from most dinner tables across America.

It should be noted that citizens in many other countries around the world still sell and eat horse meat.

How do you ladies and gentlemen feel about reducing the herds by creating a horse meat market similar to our existing beef market---AND---do you think it is possible ? And if not, what is your solution for reducing the herd size on BLM land to a sustainable size ?

For full disclosure I am not a fan of Mr. Perry who is the one spearheading ways to "manage" the wild horses and burros on BLM land, but in all fairness the problem existed way before he became involved.

I feel some sort of drastic ( however unpopular ) action needs to happen, other than just throwing more money at it via the long term plan of reducing the herd size by removing the ovaries in the mares until they reduce themselves from natural causes ( old age ) with no new births.

Your thoughts please ?

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

Open up a hunting season.

 

[belshawelk]

Oregon has a major wild horse problem in some units. I own a piece of land in Northside. I have over 1,000 pictures on my camera of wild horses. Pictures of all the dust holes they create, stud piles. I have been charged twice. Just this year my cameras got pictures of 4 different new foals. Fortunately the elk and deer don't seem to care and are not bothered by them but the horses are aggressive. They have tried many times to round up horses across the hwy in Murderers Creek. Usually they are met with protesters that block the roads and all the other BS.

 

[mtmuley]

Horse meat on the table will never sell in the U.S. Some horse people are a different kind of crazy. mtmuley

 

[glass eye]

My area is rampant with wild burros. They need to be thinned out. They compete with desert mule deer for the limited resources.

 

[MTGomer]

Change them to having the same status as feral hogs and divert some of the BLM funds to helicopter fuel and ammo.

 

[R.K.]

I don't think you could get them to market with current FDA regulations.

But yeah, I'd eat horse, no problem. Would be open to hunting them, too.

 

[kwyeewyk]

Horse meat on the table will never sell in the U.S. Some horse people are a different kind of crazy. mtmuley

This. For whatever reason, the horse lovers are very effective at getting their way and for whatever reason the majority of people judge an animal's suitability for the dinner table based on perceived intelligence, which is high for horses.

All emotions aside though, the first step that would need to happen for effective management is for there to be a decision among the scientific community as to whether they really are "feral" or if they are a native species that was extirpated and then re-introduced by Europeans. There are potentially legitimate arguments that the horses have a right to be out there, in which case they should be managed like any other native species with a hunting season if appropriate. But if deemed a feral species, then should also be treated as such with open seasons and eradication efforts.

Science will not prevail on this one, in my opinion, the emotional ones will continue to control the management.

 

[Huntkook]

Wild horses/burros should be managed the same way any wildlife is managed. Any area can only support so much. When those numbers get above the sustainable limits then the numbers need to be brought down. Back in the 80's I personally adopted a wild horse thru the BLM at a cost of $150, giving the adopter $1000 is a waste of a financial resource. Sell them in other countries that have no problem with utilizing the resource. All in all the numbers need to be controlled.

 

[MTLabrador]

They are everywhere in this part of Wyoming. To their credit, the BLM has done some large scale horse gathers in the last few years and they are planning more this fall. It’s helped, especially in the Green Mountain area.

 

[Randi]

Nobody loves horses more than I do. Had them all my life.

But, we also raised longhorns and I loved them, even "showed" them when younger---- but we also ate them. Although I agree with mtmuley that it will never happen, regulating horse meat for sale to the general public is a very good approach to this problem.

It will take years and millions of dollars to reduce the herds via the removing of ovaries from the mares approach.

Horse meat could be processed and sold, at a profit, instead of costing us money and destroying land while waiting years for the mares to die of old age.

However and unfortunately, I think mtmuley is correct

 

[FI460]

The Wild Horse and Burro Act wasn't written with scientific backing. It's an emotional piece of legislation that touches on the spirit of the American west. It will need to be addressed at great political pain.

In my perfect world we would manage feral horses with the method @MTGomer proposed. I don't think it's likely though with all the horse nuts out there. I just hope that we're able to manage their populations through hunting in the not so distant future. I'll go on record though that feral horses in America are not native reintroductions.

 

[ShootsManyBullets]

Yeah they're destroying a lot of Nevada and they're pretty like wolves so people won't support us culling them or eating them.

 

[gouch]

Nothing has changed since the 70s. Trying to sell horse meat in the US would be met with massive protest and not enough people would eat it any way, to make it profitable. I remember eating horse as a kid and liking it but it wasn't around long. Exporting it over seas is an option but the same people would protest that as well. To me hunting them is the best option but again there is a lot of opposition to any killing of horses so it aint gunna happen. People don't act on reality they act on belief and a lot of belief is spawned by emotion rather than logic. The same people that will fight tooth and nail to protect natural ecosystems will fight just as hard to protect wild horses that devastate natural ecosystems.

 

[Europe]

Thank you gentlemen and Randi. your input is appreciated.

I may not be in a position to get back on for a bit, so wanted to thank everyone who has posted ( and might still post )----- for their thoughts on this subject

 

[R.K.]

Another problem with hunting feral horses, is I imagine the counter argument would include "impossible to tell a feral from a pet". Would probably come down to condition of their coat, presence of a brand, and being someplace they don't belong. But I'm not a horse guy, so I couldn't tell you.

 

[406dn]

Unless and until the law is changed,, there will not be any lethal means of reducing wild horse and burro numbers. So,,,,,,,,,,spaying mares or a birth control implant is about the most aggressive method that is available.

If the law has survived for fiftyish years,,, it is likely surviving longer yet.

I know very little about the round ups and keeping horses in holding pens and adoption program. IMO, the only horses and burros penned or adopted should be mares. The stallions should be gelded or not and returned to the wild. It makes no sense to me to pay money to keep a stallion confined as long as there are others remaining in the wild to service the mares.

If there was any domestic demand for horse meat,, it is easily met with domesticated horses. I don't think there is a kill plant for horses in the states presently. I think they are shipped to Canada or Mexico for slaughter.

 

[nrpate05]

Unfortunately I think Black Beauty ruined any chance of people being into eating horse meat in the US. I've had it before and thought it was good. The Wild Horse and Burro Act was not very well thought out in my opinion and lacked serious foresight, to say the least. These critters have more protections than endangered animals!

I don't really know what the answer is. The roundups cost a bunch and there are only so many places to put these animals. Shipping them overseas to people who would eat them is a good idea but once again I don't think that will happen. Its unfortunate that people can't see that horses are really their own worst enemy and are eating native critters out of house and home. There was a story from awhile ago where a hundredish (I think) horses were found dead around a dried up water hole. I don't know why this is acceptable, but slaughtering a few here and there isn't.

The law really needs to change, but thats probably not a reality as well. Seems like political suicide to vote to slaughter a bunch or horses that are considered "living symbols of the historic and pioneer spirit of the West." I can think of a few things that fit this quote as well but I don't think they would survive today. You know, things like cleaning up the streets with a gun and such.

 

[mtmuley]

Wild horses are the icons and spirit of the West. And there are a shitload of people in the East that believe this. mtmuley

 

[FI460]

The horse crowd was wildly successful at closing down the horse slaughterhouses in the US and they've been vocal in their attempts to ban the exportation of horses for slaughter as well.

I've gone rounds with a close friend of my mother on this. She and her cohort believe in their hearts that there is no acceptable reason for any horse to be killed (short of euthanasia due to injury). On one hand they argue that feral horses are the reintroduced descendants of American wild horses (which to my biology training seems absurd), and on the other hand they argue that as long as cattle are on the landscape impacting ecosystems then horses deserve a spot. I've never been able to come to any middle ground with that crowd.

Until we have some brave legislators willing to stick their necks out to address the wild horse and burro act we'll be forced to follow Bob Barkers advice and stay and neuter those feral pets.