What would be the best advise for NR DYI Mountain Goat hunt with no points?

[A Guy Out West]

Another thought for you. Given the covid restrictions and cancellations, you might be able to negotiate a good deal on a guided hunt. Don’t be afraid to try to dicker on the price of a hunt. After 911, I was able to book a fantastic trip to Africa. The daily rate was half of what it usually was due to the fact that no one was traveling.

 

[kodiakisland]

Thanks for this advice. I was thinking of taking a trip to scout to just get an idea about the lay of the land where they live more than anything. I didn't want to say anything because the odds seem so impossible that it may have appeared to be presumptuous. Do you know if they change their range from winter to summer? What would you say would be the best book on the ecology and history of the mountain goat?

It really depends on the area how much they move from summer, fall, and winter. Billies typically only are around nannies for one reason, so in some areas they do move quite a bit late fall. Depending on terrain and snowfall, they may winter in a different area, or may not.

Usually though as a non resident you will not be hunting late. As much as I'd like to get another winter goat, hunting on my own in the MT backcountry during the snow season is not the best idea. Non residents usually hunt early enough that late summer scouting is good for hunting.

As far as books, there are a lot of great hunting books, but the gold standard for goats is probably A Beast the Color of Winter.

I just plan to spend a week in MT each year in August as a scouting/vacation. It's great because it's motivation to keep in goat hunting shape and gets me into goat country each year. My goal is to check out every single drainage in my hunting area and know exactly where I'll hunt if I ever do draw a tag. If I don't draw, I've still had a lot of enjoyment from the process.

This was from last summer:

 

[thebestusernamesaretaken]

It really depends on the area how much they move from summer, fall, and winter. Billies typically only are around nannies for one reason, so in some areas they do move quite a bit late fall. Depending on terrain and snowfall, they may winter in a different area, or may not.

Usually though as a non resident you will not be hunting late. As much as I'd like to get another winter goat, hunting on my own in the MT backcountry during the snow season is not the best idea. Non residents usually hunt early enough that late summer scouting is good for hunting.

As far as books, there are a lot of great hunting books, but the gold standard for goats is probably A Beast the Color of Winter.

I just plan to spend a week in MT each year in August as a scouting/vacation. It's great because it's motivation to keep in goat hunting shape and gets me into goat country each year. My goal is to check out every single drainage in my hunting area and know exactly where I'll hunt if I ever do draw a tag. If I don't draw, I've still had a lot of enjoyment from the process.

This was from last summer:

View attachment 182077

Thank you; did you know that the hard cover of that book is $985 on Amazon? I just ordered the paperback for $16 bucks - go figure?

 

[kodiakisland]

Thank you; did you know that the hard cover of that book is $985 on Amazon? I just ordered the paperback for $16 bucks - go figure?

Unfortunately I do know the cost of some of those books. I just tried to buy a first printing of Alaska Yukon Trophies Won and Lost, and just decided it wasn't worth adding it to my collection. I'm a sucker for books.

 

[geetar]

Thank you; did you know that the hard cover of that book is $985 on Amazon? I just ordered the paperback for $16 bucks - go figure?

Good book! That one stays on my shelf close by. Now if I could just find a copy of O’Connors “ Sheep and Sheep Hunting “ that wasn’t a stupid price

 

[thebestusernamesaretaken]

And, a sheep tag would give you a reason to trade that RUM in for a Creedmoor!

OP, I was going to put in for Idaho goat this year, but I think I have changed my mind. So, there is one less person you have to be luckier than.

There you go! already looking up!

 

[thebestusernamesaretaken]

Good book! That one stays on my shelf close by. Now if I could just find a copy of O’Connors “ Sheep and Sheep Hunting “ that wasn’t a stupid price

I found one! Oh, but you said not one at a stupid price .....

 

[geetar]

I found one! Oh, but you said not one at a stupid price .....

Haha they all seem to have that stupid price tag attached to them. I’m just waiting to see a Hispanic guy selling bootleg copies at a flea market. Why yes senor I take 3 of sheep book.

 

[kodiakisland]

Good book! That one stays on my shelf close by. Now if I could just find a copy of O’Connors “ Sheep and Sheep Hunting “ that wasn’t a stupid price

It's crazy what that one goes for. Even the Safari Press reprint is ridiculous.
A good read, and one currently in print so not as expensive, is Hunting Wild Sheep and Goats Around the World. More of a collection of stories and not a how to, but fun to read nevertheless. Makes me wonder what some people do for money. I'm obviously doing it wrong.

 

[geetar]

It's crazy what that one goes for. Even the Safari Press reprint is ridiculous.
A good read, and one currently in print so not as expensive, is Hunting Wild Sheep and Goats Around the World. More of a collection of stories and not a how to, but fun to read nevertheless. Makes me wonder what some people do for money. I'm obviously doing it wrong.

Is this an O’Connor book? Or who wrote this one. I’m more into the stories than the how to anyhow. Maybe this is a classic I didn’t know of.

 

[kodiakisland]

Is this an O’Connor book? Or who wrote this one. I’m more into the stories than the how to anyhow. Maybe this is a classic I didn’t know of.

No, it's a newer book .

Hunting Wild Sheep and Goats around the World

Come travel with Latham as he hunts wild sheep in the magnificent Rocky Mountains, the icy Northwest Territories, and the desiccated Chihuahuan Desert. So, grab your rifle and come along with Latham as he finds adventure in Hunting Wild Sheep and Goats

www.safaripress.com

 

[thebestusernamesaretaken]

Is this an O’Connor book? Or who wrote this one. I’m more into the stories than the how to anyhow. Maybe this is a classic I didn’t know of.

Yes, he was talking about O'Connor's collection of stories. I tried to buy it for a old hunting buddy last Christmas but the price was too high. He's older than me and swears that he has nostalgia because he has read every story already in magazines.

 

[thebestusernamesaretaken]

Yes, he was talking about O'Connor's collection of stories. I tried to buy it for a old hunting buddy last Christmas but the price was too high. He's older than me and swears that he has nostalgia because he has read every story already in magazines.

Sorry, I thought he was comparing the prices of the O'Connor book to https://www.safaripress.com/hunting-wild-sheep-and-goats-around-the-world.html

 

[kodiakisland]

Safari press printed a couple of books that were just Jack's magazine articles that are pretty good and may not be that expensive if you can find one. His book on desert hunting is good too. I was lucky to inherit several first printings of O'Connors from my grandfather. They are mostly for the book case and the Safari Press printings for reading.

 

[BigHornRam]

Thanks for this advice. I was thinking of taking a trip to scout to just get an idea about the lay of the land where they live more than anything. I didn't want to say anything because the odds seem so impossible that it may have appeared to be presumptuous. Do you know if they change their range from winter to summer? What would you say would be the best book on the ecology and history of the mountain goat?

Take a summer scouting trip to Idaho mountain goat country and it will likely convince you to do a guided Alaska hunt. It's rugged.
The goat alliance guys have done some summer goat count and herd health trips in the past. Contact them and maybe you can participate in one or two. Where you coming from?

 

[glass eye]

I quit applying and began going to New Zealand for tahr and chamois DIY on public land. Hunting the Southern Alps I got to experience alpine hunting while I still could. Been there 5 times since 2011 and will go again when this covid blows away.

 

[buffybr]

I saw that and there's a tremendous amount of controversy surrounding it. I immediately thought the same thing but I don't know if I would feel good about it afterwards.

The National Park Service started culling Goats on Federal land in the Grand Teton National Park as they are considered an invasive species and are out competing big horn sheep. They did this without consulting the State of WI. The Governor publicly admonished the Park Service for doing this and because of this, the Sec of the Interior ordered the culling by helicopter stopped. The National Park Service began to work with State of WY on how to remove the goats from federal land. They came up with a plan to use State licensed hunters instead of snipers during a hunting season.

It seems that the National Park Service has been supper sensitive after the backlash they got for the initial aerial culling and the situation became very political. After a deeper dive, It looks like those folks in on the hunt were really invited to apply and selected, and those folks suggested people that they knew and so on, (so even though they set up a public process, access was passed really by word of mouth). After that public beating that they took, the Park Service seemed to want to be as quiet as possible while going about it. Because it's a culling, they have to kill animals that you normally wouldn't (nanny's, kids & young males). The hunters can keep the meat of one goat but have to leave the cape & horns where they lay.

Many in the National Park Service wanted to continue with the mission of eradication by helicopter. They apparently killed over 30 animals in 4 hours with the estimated goal of killing 100 goats. They stopped the culling and allowed hunters to come in to shoot them instead. I believe the hunters only shot 16 mountain goats in several weeks. There seems to be a dissatisfaction among Park Service Biologist as to the progress of the culling and how politics became involved with what they considered a federal ecological matter.

“The mountain goat ‘hunt’ in Grand Teton, which runs Sept. 14 to Nov. 13, is hardly a hunt at all,” Mader wrote. “It is the next step in a failed public process, a financially and ecologically costly political interference in an invasive species removal project that could have been completed in days but will now likely last for years. The factors are stacked toward failure with the park’s choice of a volunteer hunt.”

Inside the goat cull in Grand Teton National Park

“Mountaineering with a rifle” is how Taylor Glenn summed up his first few hours of pursuing mountain goats in Grand Teton National Park.

www.jhnewsandguide.com

There ought to be a bounty on Park Service biologists! I don't know if the PS ever went through with it, but years ago the Yellowstone biologists wanted to eradicate the mountain goats in the Mt Baronet area because the goats were "evasive" as they had wandered in there from the A-B Wilderness just north of the Park in Montana.

Yet just downstream where Pebble Creek flows into the Lamar River, there used to be a small herd of bighorn sheep that wintered there. I used to go in there every winter to watch and photograph them. Then the PS released the Canadian wolves into Yellowstone. Talk about an invasive species! The wolves wiped out that small herd of bighorn sheep, and the PS closed that area to the public as it is now a wolf denning area.


I can understand the OP's desire for a DIY goat hunt. I shot my mountain goat back in 1978 on a DIY solo hunt. Back then that area was also a Unlimited bighorn sheep unit, and I shot two of my rams there, also on DIY solo hunts. The year that I had my goat tag there I made many trips in the summer and fall into that area scouting the goats. In the fall I had an unlimited sheep tag in my pocket, but purposely left my goat tag at home because I wanted a goat with long hair.

The entire time that I was scouting goats, and also the other years that I was in that unit just hunting sheep, I never saw sheep and goats within miles of each other. I'm not saying that the sheep and goat ranges don't overlap, but in my 40+ years of watching and hunting them, I have never seen them together.


I've posted this before, but as to the OP's question for advice on applying for a goat tag with no points...Montana's "bonus" point system doesn't mean that the applicants with the most points are drawn first, it just means that your name in "put into the hat" the number of times that you have points. A few years ago they changed it so your number of bonus points is squared, and your name in put into the hat that squared number if times. That means that those of us that have the maximum number of bonus points, which I think this year is 18, will have our name in the hat 324 times. But everyone's name goes into the same hat for each unit, and every year applicants with 1 or 2 points draw tags.

Montana's nonresident 10% rule means than no more than 10% of the tags in each Region can go to nonresidents.

 

[geetar]

No, it's a newer book .

Hunting Wild Sheep and Goats around the World

Come travel with Latham as he hunts wild sheep in the magnificent Rocky Mountains, the icy Northwest Territories, and the desiccated Chihuahuan Desert. So, grab your rifle and come along with Latham as he finds adventure in Hunting Wild Sheep and Goats

www.safaripress.com

Thank you! I will check this one out.

 

[Gary]

Unfortunately, I don't live in a Goat State. I was trying in earnest to convince my Wife to move to Alaska after our last child graduates high school, but those Alaska TV shows kind of put a nail in that coffin. Something about the bugs and how everything in those Alaska shows seem to involve death or dismemberment. So, I've been working on her for Montana and WY as options.

I know that it's going to be a bit of a wild card as I should have applied in my 20s. I have certainly been looking into AK and BC guided hunts. I'm not opposed to booking a guided hunt but Covid kind of put a wrinkle in the finances for now. Even still, the dream is a DYI hunt in the wilderness mountains. I personally just get more out of that type of experience.

I'm just looking for the best advise of local knowledge given any best possible chance.

Perhaps needless to say, but the tv shows DO NOT depict real life in AK.

 

[thebestusernamesaretaken]

It's crazy what that one goes for. Even the Safari Press reprint is ridiculous.
A good read, and one currently in print so not as expensive, is Hunting Wild Sheep and Goats Around the World. More of a collection of stories and not a how to, but fun to read nevertheless. Makes me wonder what some people do for money. I'm obviously doing it wrong.

I tell that to my wife at least once a week!