Unfit to be CIC

[pawclaws]

Military experience may not; but, supporting your comrades, the military, and your elected officials damn sure does have something to do with being CIC. To all of which Kerry fails miserably. He is a lying, two faced coward!@ (Ask his peers!)

 

[feclnogn]

EG,


I will agree with Nemont on this, he led the nation after 9-11, he came up with a plan to fight back and stuck with it. He did so with out regards to the polls or the thought of failure. Bush has put his presidency on the line over this. Come hell or highwater he will stick with it. That is leadership. This is what seperates him from Kerry and democrats in general when it comes to the use of the military. With the dems, when things start to go bad the they (the dems) start wringing there hands, watching the polls and looking for a way out. If you doubt this look at the history of dems since The Bay of Pigs with Kennedy through to Clinton. Kerry is already talking about rejoining the community of nations and bringing in others to share the load. Who is gonna do this? The French? Germans? Russians? If you think this just pull up some threads on the UN oil for food scandal and see who it involves.

As far as Irag being a clusterfuck, well the jury is out on that. Time will tell, however I personally feel that it is not a quagmire, just a tough time with the transition coming up. One of my best friends is a Captain with the Marines in fallujah. His company was getting most of the air time last week with fox news, you might even have seen him giving some interviews as he gave several. They are kicking the shit out of these insurgants and doing good work. He called my dad about 2 weeks ago from there and told him he had called in a F-16 and killed a whole pile of them insurgants What you see on the evening news and read over at DU are not a true picture of what is going on there.

And putting an Iragi general is charge could turn out to be a good thing. At some point the Iragis need to start to taking care of them selves. One of the problems in Irag is a lack of jobs partly because we disbanded the army and sent them home to nothing. This is propably the biggest mistake we made and hopefully we will be able to fix.

 

[yz1]

ElkGunner

Don't know where you were looking, but I found these links:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/05/politics/campaign/05VETS.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2143-2004May4.html

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/5/3/92240.shtml

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=\SpecialReports\archive\200405\SPE20040503a.html

Yes, I dug for those, but, than I went to Google.com, put in Swift Boat Veterans for Truth found this http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Swift+Boat+Veterans+for+Truth&btnG=Google+Search.

My recognition is that what questioned his being fit for being CIC, was his DUI! His service to his country in the ANG, was a plus, still is today, too!

The only thing that JFKerry has going for him is that the last true Senator elected USA President had his initials. Since, JFK no true Senator has been elected President. Yes, LBJ, & GRF, both Senators, served as Presidents, neither were elected as Presidents! LBJ succeeded JFK, and GRF appointed VP, and then succeeded RMN as President. Of course, you will know the RMN was a Senator, but he was later elected Gov. of Calf.! JEC, RWR, WJC, & GWB all were Gov.'s prior to being Presidents. The only recent President elected that wasn't a Gov. was GHWB, a Congressman of some backwoods, hillbilly, High Fence Hunting Southern State.

Ken

[ 05-05-2004, 03:09: Message edited by: yz1 ]

 

[yz1]

Elkgunner

What? You did! Well I went to Yahoo.com, repeated my search, found these, [url]http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Swift+Boat+Veterans+for+Truth&ei=UTF-8&fr=fp-tab-web-t&cop=mss&tab=[/url]

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Kerry 'Unfit to be Commander-in-Chief,' Say Former Military Colleagues -- 05/03/2004
... the letter-signers, is being organized by a newly formed group called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. ... referred questions about Swift Boat Veterans for Truth's event on Tuesday to ...
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... the letter-signers, is being organized by a newly formed group called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. ... O'Neill hopes the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth can reveal to the ...

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InMuscatine. Jump to navigation. 03 May. Fire One! Kamp Kerry has to be going into triple-overtime little green fits over this. And now there is Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth. I imagine there is one theme running at Kamp Kerry CNC...
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Go Figure!!!!!

Ken

 

[pawclaws]

I was not impressed by the media coverage of the announcement of the Swift Boat group; nor the quality of the event. It seemed to be "ho-hum" and smacked of sour grapes on the part of the Texas lawyer. This really is a big deal; but, I'm afraid will have little impact on the election. Then too the overshadowing Iraqi POW events took center stage and gave this News Release little room. Bad timing!

 

[Nemont]

Elkgunner,

But yet, you both are convinced by Kerry's experience, that he won't be a good CIC.

If the guys who went into combat with him say he is unfit then I think that they know the true leadership ability of John Kerry. When you are in the military and have to depend on the people next to you to cover your back you develop a very strong relationship with those people. Unless you can't trust them. The men I served with are now my brothers and I love them like brothers. I wouldn't really care if one of them ran for president as a communist candidate I would stick by them and not sign something saying they were unfit in any leadership role because I know their ability. It's a little thing called Loyalty. Apparently not many who fought with Kerry feel much loyalty toward him. That is what I base my judgement of his fitness to be CIC upon, the men who had to trust him to watch their backs were not able to trust him. Therefore neither should I trust him to lead our military as CIC.

The President's fitness to be CIC prior to 2001 in now a mute point as he has led for 3 1/2 years. We now have seen him in the role of CIC during 9/11 and the aftermath of that. Doesn't matter if you agree with him or not. He has led and proven to be an effective CIC. Ask the troops, who are required to be in Iraq and Afganistan by this president, who they would feel better about being their CIC.

For an incumbent, you have to decide if you are satisfied with the job being done. And in that category, we can all agree that Dubya is not doing well enough to warrant another term. Therefore, we must move on to better Presidents.

You may have come to that conclusion but many of us have not. I will determine for myself if I think we need to change Presidents.
That is just your opinion. You need to quit posting your opinions as facts.

Since when are you into being fair?

Therefore, I think it is unfair to dismiss a challenger for lacking the experiences for the job.

Nemont

[ 05-05-2004, 14:14: Message edited by: Nemont ]

 

[JoseCuervo]

Nemont and Fecl,

I will take the liberty to summarize your posts, or at least draw a conclusion. Neither of you were able to point to ANY qualifications Dubya had prior to January 20, 2001 to be CIC.

And Hangar points out that prior military service is not a good predictor of success as CIC.

But yet, you both are convinced by Kerry's experience, that he won't be a good CIC.

Funny, but I don't by the fact that Dubya was going to Baseball games and striking out on Oil deals. Watching his brother embroiled in the S&L mess, and allowing a bunch of backwoods rednecks to shoot hogs and dinky rat deer behind a high fence qualified him to be CIC. It would seem Kerry would have at least equal, or better, experience, prior to an initial innaugaration.

Therefore, I think it is unfair to dismiss a challenger for lacking the experiences for the job.

For a new person into office, you have to look at are they "capable" to do the job. In my opinion, both Kerry and Dubya are capable.

For an incumbent, you have to decide if you are satisfied with the job being done. And in that category, we can all agree that Dubya is not doing well enough to warrant another term. Therefore, we must move on to better Presidents.

 

[JoseCuervo]

And as a side note, the big press conference that the original article alluded to on Tuesday, and that Danr and Ten Beers thought would be so impactful went over like a lead balloon.

I searched on Yahoo for news of the conference, and found none, but I did find plenty of articles on the Prisoner Abuse/Torture and that making Dubya look bad. Tuesday was not an effective day to try and get in the headlines by bashing Kerry, when the Iraqi Quagmire was the dominant story.


And it is funny that O'neill says he is for the Truth. He has been a partisan flunky of the GOP since the Nixon administration, trotted out when needed.

 

[ELKCHSR]

You may have come to that conclusion but many of us have not. I will determine for myself if I think we need to change Presidents.
That is just your opinion. You need to quit posting your opinions as facts.

Since when are you into being fair?

LMAO!!!! Well said...

 

[feclnogn]

And in that category, we can all agree that Dubya is not doing well enough to warrant another term

Actually this is one "I" that would prefer to be left out of your "we". Thanks for thinking for me though.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Nemont and Fecl,

I read back through, and it looks like my logic and reasoning was sound. Please mark your ballots accordingly....

If you need help on any other decisions, let me know....

 

[Nemont]

EG,

If you need help on any other decisions, let me know....

Nemont

 

[ELKCHSR]

As a wise man on the board would say...BLAH BLAH BLAH... >

 

[JoseCuervo]

Originally posted by ELKCHSR:

As a wise man on the board would say...BLAH BLAH BLAH... >

That is funny that you posted in yet another topic, where you can't even understand the issue. Don't you get books delivered to your Hole in the Ground?

 

[ELKCHSR]

Copyright..BLAH BLAH BLAH... >

 

[Erik in AK]

Military service is not, nor should it be, a formal prerequisite for one's election as POTUS however, if a candidate has served then his service record is fair game. JK has 80% of the men who served with him unified against him.

Being 2 months shy of 20 years on AD, I can tell you that that kind of criticism is very damning with the veteran vote.

John Kerry was a lousy officer. Ones quality as a leader of men is a direct reflection of one's character. The men who would know best assert he doesn't have any.

 

[feclnogn]

EG I have a question for you regarding CIC. If you look at those currently serving as Eric above, or those that have and are retired, why is it that an overwhelming majority do not consider Kerry qualified, do not trust Kerry to make the right decision and in general will not vote for the man? Who knows more on this subject? You or the men and women who serve or served?

 

[JoseCuervo]

Fecl,

My guess is that if you go back through the posts of Erik's in January and Feb, you will not find a single post of his where he shows support for Howard Dean, Joe Lieberman, Dick Gephardt, Dennis Kocinich, or Al Sharpton. My guess is that Erik and the rest of the "overwhelming majority" that you cite are actually nothing more than die-hard Dubya supporters, who will defend him no matter what.

And the same goes for that lackey O'Neill who is making all these ridiculous charges. I bet you will not find a search on www.SwiftBoatVetsForSharpton.Org. O'Neil is nothing more than a lackey for the GOP, being used by Dubya just as he was by Nixon.

And due to the failures in leadership by Dubya, we have a divided country. It is almost as if we are having a referendum on Dubya instead of an election. You will vote for nobody BUT Dubya, and others will vote for ANYBODY but Dubya.

And that leaves the election to the intelligent moderates in the Middle, who remain undecided, like myself.

I read an article today, stating that Dubya has 205 Electoral Votes locked up, and Kerry has 205 locked up. And it is only 14 states that are in play.

 

[feclnogn]

You still failed to answer the question eg. I asked you why the majority of military will vote for Bush over Kerry. I mentioned nothing of O'neil so why do you feel the need to go off subject. Or maybe you feel the majority of the military are a bunch of rightwing flunkies.

The country was divided before Bush, and it came out in 2000 with Bush-Gore not due to a failure of leadership on Bush's part.

One more question for you. Why do you feel the need in almost every post you make to somehow seperate and elevate yourself above those who post on this board. You seem to think you are some sort of great sage who looks down on those unable to exist on your intelectual plane. Personally I think either you suffer from some sort of phycological inferiority complex or ya got a small dick. Which is it

Cheers.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Fecl,

How would I be able to explain how the "majority of military" will vote???? I can only speculate on what I think motivates them. You asked, and my answer was that they would vote for Dubya, no matter who was on the Democratic ticket.

Is that incorrect? Do you think Erik was pro-Dean or pro-Sharpton?

And I bring O'Neill into the answer, as that is who was quoted in the original article of THIS thread, so that is where I have access to the "majority of military" you were referring to. So if you think referencing the article that started this thread is "off topic", then I am at a loss for how to answer your questions.

And to your final question, actually the answer is "excessive sarcasm", intended to make sure Nemont is reading closely, as he always catches the comments.