BrentD
Well-known member
Draining Russia and keeping them a little further away from the West.
It's at a crude level, it's a little like Vietnam only the Russian and American roles are reversed.
Ukraine / Russia
- Thread starter Cheesehead
- Start date
It's at a crude level, it's a little like Vietnam only the Russian and American roles are reversed.
D
Deleted member 28227
Guest
To disincentivize the nuclear blackmail.
Russia is trying to use it's nuclear weapons to allow it to invade a neighbor and win a conventional war. Nukes are a bluff, by supporting Ukraine we are calling them on the bluff.
At this point Russia has mostly lost the war, I suspect this all ends with some conversation change in the Kremlin... kinda like how we never "lost Vietnam". It's not going to be nukes.
We need Ukraine to do as well as possible so that other nuclear powers don't do the same thing, i.e. China v. Taiwan, and also keep nukes from becoming even more attractive to states like Iran.
I think if we capitulate and get Ukraine to come to the table before they "win" then you likely see China playing a similar game and you see other countries building weapons.
SAJ-99
Well-known member
About half the aid is humanitarian. There are some 7m refugees who have fled the country and many more that remain and need basic assistance. What ever is the benefit to helping people in need? I can't give you what you want, which is a monetary number that is positive in our direction.
The other half is military aid. Someone pointed this out a few posts ago, and I did the same about 100 pages ago. We get see how our high tech weapons work on a major army with traditional military capabilities. We learn tactics, both those that work and those that don't. We get to see military capabilities of other countries with national slogans like "Death to America"- looking at Iran and NK. In that respect, it is a game, but again, there is no monetary number on the benefit.
Given Russia’s current state I think we could say that goal has been completed.
Why continue?
Back then into a corner, doesn’t seem wise.
Cause Russia to collapse, that’s risky as well.
Topple Putin, we need to be careful the replacement could be worse.
BrentD
Well-known member
The benefits to the US and the rest of the West and the World as a whole have been pretty well enumerated in the press for months and months now. If you don't see the benefits, including the very important intangibles (see wllm's post above), then you aren't looking. Sweden and Finland running to join NATO is just one sign of how much is at stake while dealing with a meglomaniac that has intentions of building a new, bigger, better Empire.
There are plenty here that need basic assistance.
Russia has been exposed. They are only equal in one regard.
BrentD
Well-known member
Because it's not complete until it is over. That's why they play the whole 60 minutes of football and 9 innings of baseball.
This is not where we want to end up (see Iraq 1 for one of many).
"On the plains of hesitation lie the blackened bones of countless millions who at the dawn of victory lay down to rest, and in resting died."
L
longbow51
Guest
I would take all this domino theory stuff much more seriously if the EU nations would do their part with aid to Ukraine and their 2% to NATO. They don't seem worried enough to do that.
D
Deleted member 18333
Guest
These things are so unbelievably complex with so many variables and so many unknowns that the odds US support for Ukraine will have long term benefits to the US or even the rest of the globe are no better than if we were to do nothing. For anyone say, "If you can't see the benefits, you just aren't looking" is fooling themselves. History has filled with, "didn't see it ending that way". There are solid arguments to say support for Ukraine is wise and should be continued but to think it's blatantly obvious or even likely to work in our benefit is naïve. At best.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
Isn't it more a hedge against some bad than a bet for something good?
SAJ-99
Well-known member
They have to take on the refugees. That has cost that doesn't show as aid to Ukraine. Also, as a percentage of GDP, their support could be argued as being higher than ours. Bill Gates donating $1000 to a cause and me donating $1000 to a cause shouldn't be viewed as equal.
Solid arguments versus fear of the unknown possibility...hmmm.
I met a former Miss Ukraine on a cruise ship working as an entertainment director. Oh man! Smokeshow!
Benfromalbuquerque
Well-known member
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Then it follows they would deny entry to firefighters if their sovereign garage catches fire. Suppose they return their Social Security payments and do purchases through barter at the gas station?
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Pics or it didn't happen.
SAJ-99
Well-known member
Social media strikes again.
Handlebar
Well-known member
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WVmike
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Anyone with a brain stem would know not to disclose your location especially during military operations, oh wait watch their cool special forces training videos on youtube and they probably don't have a brain left after doing the crazy stupid stuff they do for training to show how "special" they are. I've seen some videos where they use live ammo at point blank to teach them how to deal with pain.
Interesting turn.
amp.cnn.com
United States and Saudi Arabia have shared intelligence with each other that indicates that Iran may be planning an imminent attack on energy infrastructure in the Middle East, particularly in Saudi Arabia, a US official tells CNN.
I really hope this is true and Iran jumps. I also hope the U.S tells the Saudi’s to F off, until oil production increases to where we want it.
US and Saudi Arabia concerned that Iran may be planning attack on energy infrastructure in Middle East | CNN Politics
United States and Saudi Arabia have shared intelligence with each other that indicates that Iran may be planning an imminent attack on energy infrastructure in the Middle East, particularly in Saudi Arabia, a US official tells CNN.
I really hope this is true and Iran jumps. I also hope the U.S tells the Saudi’s to F off, until oil production increases to where we want it.
