Topo Map Software

[Washington Hunter]

Yes there is free stuff you can use, but if you want the good stuff you have to pay for it. Believe me it's well worth it. Like I said, all the CD's for all of Oregon and Washington was $140. Sounds like a lot but think how much it would cost to go out and buy maps of all the places you hunt or will hunt in the future. It adds up. I'll tell you another thing you can do with your Etrex and your map software. Say you're out scouting a new area, driving the roads and/or walking the trails. Leave your GPS unit on while driving or walking, and when done with each road or trail, save it as a route in your GPS unit and label it. When you get home, transfer those routes from the GPS to the computer. Your routes will then show up on your maps! You can see exactly where you drove and/or walked. No more guessing involved. It's great. I love this new technology. I have to say though, it's still no substitute for knowledge of how to use a compass and a map. You need all three.

 

[Elkhunter]

WH, thanks, that is basicly what I am wanting it for.

 

[Krustyklimber]

Mtmiller,

What GPS do you own?

I don't know of any that show all trails, and most civilian GPSs have about a 100' margin of error... that's a wide trail LOL.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Then the good thing about having the background is that trails, creeks mountains, etc... are shown and I can locate the best way to get to the lake. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Only trails and other terrainal features that it knows can be shown, and while it may show a creek it may not show where the bridge crossing it is, or how deep of a channel it is if there is no bridge.
I had this problem finding a lake, that my GPS knew where it and the creek were.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>These obstacles are shown right on the GPS. Of course, I usually have the topos with me as well.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know of no GPS that lists cliff faces, something we spend a lot of time avoiding in our woods, and most topos will not help with this problem either.
In the area where the "lost lake" is there are many 50' to 80' cliff bands. These will not show up on a map with 80' contour lines, and even a 300' tall cliff is difficult to make out on even the biggest versions of topo maps.
But these cliffs will hurt you if you navigate your way off one.

Marshy ground, brambles, nettles, slash left behind from logging operations, poison oak/ivy, avalanche slopes and many other things come into play when backcoutry navigating...
Something I have a lot of experience with.
And what I thought Elkhunter was asking about.

If he wanted to use established trails to get to known lakes (to the GPS) he'd probably be able to park at a trailhead, and follow the wooden signs that mark the well trodden trail to the lake. And A GPS isn't necessary for that kind of travel.

Jeff

 

[BigOne]

Jeff, what would be a decent starter GPS for someone that is considering purchasing?

 

[Washington Hunter]

Jeff, you might be surprised how accurate GPS actually is. I'm a land surveyor and I use it quite a bit at work, and of course I also use it for hunting and scouting. Since the government did away with Selective Availability a couple of years ago, accuracy went way up. Maybe you are thinking of the accuracy from a couple of years ago? I would say that now, generally they will be accurate to within about 15 feet or less. Just try driving a road, even a main highway, with your GPS unit turned on. Save it as a track and when you get home transfer that track into your computer's map software (Maptech or TOPO for example.) That track will come up on the map on your screen. You will see that the line it draws on the map for where you drove, will be right on the road that shows on the map. One thing to remember with GPS, you have to have 4 satellites for good accuracy. 3 sattelites will work for getting you back to your vehicle, but don't expect accuracy. It all has to do with mathematics.

P.S. In my last post, I meant to say track, not route.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 02-25-2003 20:39: Message edited by: Washington Hunter ]</font>

 

[Washington Hunter]

Big One, you can't go wrong with the basic Garmin Etrex (the yellow one.) It's the easiest to learn and it will do everything that you need. You can get it for just over $100.

 

[Elkhunter]

Krusty, i am wanting the software so i can download info from my GPS to the computer and put it on the maps to establish basicly any information I wish like trails, cliffs, bedding areas, feeding areas and even poison ivy if I wish to. The information I can achieve in the field with my GPS can be very valuable if put onto a map.

 

[mtmiller]

Krusty-

I use a Garmin V plus (believe I mentioned that several times).

What Washington Hunter mentioned is true, the government did away with selective availablity years ago ('99 I think). The accuracy is great for navigation and is about nuts on with the Trimble unit I use which is sub 3-meter accuracy.

I will repeat, the backgrounds for the garmin are identical to the USGS topos. I am in agreement with you that having orienteering skills and a map is the way to go, but once again, what you see on your map is what I see on my GPS screen (obviously maps don't run on batteries, so it is a good idea to carry them as a backup).

OK, if you say cliffs (tight contour lines) are not obvious on topos, then obviously they won't be apparent on my unit either. So, I don't know what your point is here, but I am smart enough to see where the slope is not as great.

As for brambles, brush piles, etc..., I can't defend that, but let me know if you find one of those maps. For now, I will manually mark them on the GPS maps. In the mean time, I will just try navigating with my eyes open. Glad to hear you have experienced all that though. Give yourself a pat on the back for me.

Cool thing about seeing trails on the GPS is that I don't have to be at the trailhead to know where it goes. I like to leave the trail now and then and it is benefit to see where you may run into another trail and to where it may lead.

If you think GPS's are crap, fine with me, don't use one. I responded to a question and was trying to be helpful. You on the otherhand are coming off as a pr%ck and seem to rather ignorant on the subject. In the mean time, go test drive one, then come back and let me know what I am full of crap about.

 

[elkgetter]

I'm curious if anyone knows anything about the garmin geko 101? Thats what we're looking at getting. I believe it's new on the market.

 

[Krustyklimber]

Mtmiller,

Whoa up a little dude, no need to get personal here (I sure didn't), your "ignorance" comment was over the top... I sure didn't become a member of this site to take crap off of guys like you!!!
I just thought I would answer the question in the way I thought the poster asking needed the information.

This makes me a PRICK??? Where the hell does that come from? If trying to save a guy from making a $500+ purchase HE DOESN'T REALLY NEED makes me a prick so be it!

I could put a name or two on you too, my friend! (if your gonna be man enough to call someone a PRICK, be man enough to spell it out!!!)

I have used many different brands of GPS units, and started in airplanes over 12 yrs ago. When I worked at REI we had "shop loaners" that they WANTED us to use as much as we could (we would often plot our way to and from lunch)! And I have taken one of every brand they sell (or did up until last X-mas) out into the field for testing.

I have extensive experience with this too. Not patting myself on the back, just stating THE FACTS!

WH,

I have driven down I-5 plotting as we went, a Garmin ex-trek (sic?) will stay near the road, but didn't even stay in a four lane freeway. This is after SA was dropped.
I don't know how it's gonna stay on a trail, especially one that isn't on any map or in my GPS?
My old Lowrance even with the "airplane chip" removed and the "hiker chip" installed has way less accuracy, then modern ones.

I do not have any programs in my 'puter to deal with GPS data, I don't have the RAM required to run one.

Many manufactured a few years before SA was dropped have very low accuracy, they didn't need to be designed to be smarter than the current "system" was.

And as far as what's on a USGS map being on your GPS that's cool too... go look at my neck of the woods sometime. You'll see that much of the counrty here is just white.... they have not surveyed the land to a point it shows up on any maps... basic contours but no water, plant cover or anything else is shown. And the trees here are often so thick one satelite is tough to track let alone the four+ it takes for accurate readings like elevations.

I have nothing against GPS units or the use of them... I do have a thing against relying solely on technology as opposed to using the best computer we own... OUR BRAIN!

A GPS is a tool for use in orienteering... not an orienteer! Nothing electronic replaces good ol' horse sense in the woods!

Nothing!

Lewis and Clark found their way across the whole country without a GPS... I'd bet Elkhunter could find his way to a lake on a map just as well!

Jeff

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 02-26-2003 13:56: Message edited by: Krustyklimber ]</font>

 

[Washington Hunter]

Krusty, well I guess I've had much better luck with GPS than you. Like I said, I use my Etrex quite often at work, when doing property line surveys. They have proven to be real timesavers. For example, we can load the latitude and longitude coordinates of a section corner into the GPS unit while we are in the office. Then drive out to the job (which we may have never been to) and first of all it will help us drive as close as possible to the corner we want to locate. Then we can walk through the woods taking the easiest route possible, and it will usually get us within 10 or 15 feet of the monument marking that section corner. This is much easier than the old way. The old way we would use a "string box" which is just what it sounds like, a box with a spool of string that you tie off and it tells you how far you've gone in feet. With this method you have to start at a known point, and follow a bearing in a straight line until you get to the required distance. This is not always easy, as you cannot go around obstacles like creeks, swamps, blackberry briars, steep hills, etc. Anyway, the point is, they are accurate. You are right, they are not a substitute for basic map and compass knowledge, and there are many uses for them in scouting and hunting, especially when used in conjunction with map software on your PC.

 

[BigOne]

Thanks for the info. WAHunter.

 

[Washington Hunter]

Big One, I should have also recommended the Etrex Venture. If you can spend just a little more money (only $20 or $30) you might consider it. It's the one I bought after my yellow Etrex fell off my brother's truck's hood and after hitting the pavement got run over by the trailer.

I got it for $140 off eBay. It doesn't do much that the basic Etrex won't do, but it has a higher resolution so it's a little easier to read, and waypoints are easier and faster to name. Also when you're in the map screen, it allows you to pan all around, which is nice. The basic Etrex only lets you see where you currently are on the map, not where you've been. Hope I didn't confuse you! (but I know I probably did)

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 02-26-2003 22:36: Message edited by: Washington Hunter ]</font>

 

[mtmiller]

Sorry about that Krusty, I get a little offensive when someone says I am wrong about equipment I have used and they have not. Maybe I should not have used the word ignorant, instead misinformed.

I in no way am trying to get anyone to drop $500 on a GPS unit, and the only reason I have one is through work. I only mentioned the unit I use (you asked as well). I just brought up the mapping software and made a link available to TK to see if his equipment was compatable. This was the point of the topic and I was just recommending a product that I was familiar with.

I am sure you have a lot to offer this board and hope you stick around. Too bad we had to include a great deal of unnecessary crap to what was a good topic. Sorry fellas and gals, I will play nice (well try).

 

[Krustyklimber]

Well Mtmiller,

I will take your apology for what it is...

I don't think I'm misinformed either, but oh well...

Just because I said "I wasn't gonna advise he spend $500", doesn't mean I said you were.
And I never said you didn't have the right to your opinion or that your opinion was not valid.

I'm not the one who said you were wrong... you said I was!

I actually think neither of us was. Maybe in your part of the world you don't have the same problems aquiring satelite signals as I do... I know WH lives and works in country that is way flatter than here, with out nearly the same thick vegetation.

It doesn't take a very high ridge or mountain to block your view, or thick forest to render my satelite fix to only one bird.
And that's with any brand, a blocked view is a blocked view.

I can only speak from my own experiences, in the way I interpret the question.

Let's do this, let's run a hypothetical trip. I'll give you the coordinants to the place we parked the truck on the way to "the lost lake" and the coodinants to the lake, both are on any GPS.

Between the road, next to which we park the truck, and the lake lies an ORV area, a maze of trails run along it's slope.
From the lake pours a creek, impassable in it's gorge except at one place, a very small bridge, well hidden in plain view. LOL (actually there are two bridges but you have to get over the first one to get to the second)

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, would be to give us the coodinates of the bridge.

If you had a way to display the trail for us too that would make it even better, I can help with getting pictures up. if you plot a course

The coordinates are:

N 47° 49.905' W121° 36.268' for the truck
and
N 47° 51.729' W121°35.859' for the lake.

Best of luck, it took us many tries to finally find it.

To get to the lake we had to pay for it, but it was well worth the reward!

Jeff

 

[Krustyklimber]

Hmmm looks like MtMiller is not willing to accept the mission... that's too bad!

It would be really neat for us to do a review of some of those programs I don't have.

I can teach whoever is willing to accept "the Mission" how to post a "screenshot" so we could see, what you see, while running the program...

I think this is a great opportunity for us to learn a lot about GPS related software... let's not loose out, by not doing this...

WashingtonHunter are you up for it? Moosie? Anyone?

Thanks,

Jeff