Time to play politics. Help me move these rule changes through the process at IDFG.

[MTGomer]

An Idaho resident trying to eliminate the fact that he lives in the one place where drawing big 3 tags in a lifetime is an expectation and not an exception, seems like a bad idea to me but I’m not an Idaho resident.

My advice would be to go hunt general elk and plan/scout your inevitable ram hunt.

 

[Mica Man]

I have no complaints with the current system, but then again, I drew all three of my OIL tags over a 20-year span. I believe opening up the floodgates for applications to everyone, especially those who are not absolutely serious at hunting Idaho's big three will hurt everyone's odds at drawing a OIL tag.

Also, letting someone put in on a whim for a sheep, goat, or moose tag in addition to deer, elk and antelope will only create more scenarios like we saw in Montana last year with tent shanking incident.

Montana Mountain Goat- at wits end

Long story short, i drew a Montana mountain goat tag and set off for what I was hoping to be up to a nine day long goat hunt only to find the one and only road into the district closed due to washed out bridge less than a mile into said district. I did the longest hike of my life yesterday...

www.hunttalk.com

 

[Deleted member 48080]

Totally up to the people of Idaho, but just an example for the downside of number 2.

The moose population I apply for and know the best, is split between both MT and ID. Bordering units, and the same moose cross back and forth between the two states.

The R draw odds in ID are 17%, MT is 0.6%.

 

[cgasner1]

Don’t forget the preference points those are a must

 

[cgasner1]

I have no complaints with the current system, but then again, I drew all three of my OIL tags over a 20-year span. I believe opening up the floodgates for applications to everyone, especially those who are not absolutely serious at hunting Idaho's big three will hurt everyone's odds at drawing a OIL tag.

Also, letting someone put in on a whim for a sheep, goat, or moose tag in addition to deer, elk and antelope will only create more scenarios like we saw in Montana last year with tent shanking incident.

Montana Mountain Goat- at wits end

Long story short, i drew a Montana mountain goat tag and set off for what I was hoping to be up to a nine day long goat hunt only to find the one and only road into the district closed due to washed out bridge less than a mile into said district. I did the longest hike of my life yesterday...

www.hunttalk.com

Ok im in if it will create more threads of that nature how do we make this happen!

 

[fowladdict]

You are going to hate me. My suggestion is to leave big three alone, allow only putting in for two species of the regular controlled hunts, 2 year layoff after drawing an antlerless or either sex tag, and 3 year layoff for all antlered draws.

 

[perma]

You are going to hate me. My suggestion is to leave big three alone, allow only putting in for two species of the regular controlled hunts, 2 year layoff after drawing an antlerless or either sex tag, and 3 year layoff for all antlered draws.

Well give yourself an at-bat buddy, tell us your rationale before you tell us we’re going to hate you.

 

[Elkmagnet]

And yet I know goat hunters who have stopped applying because the goat numbers are so far down.


Full disclosure - I'm old and bitter. Years of watching others draw and shoot moose (some more than one per tag) have left me bitter. Watching videos of product endorsed yahoos doing the Jack O'Connor spray and pray on gorgeous rams has left me bitter. I see locals who draw a OIL tag and appear to not even care about it. They road hunt and shoot dinks.
I get that you shoot a dink after you've put in serious effort, but to not even try? WTF even apply? Get out of the way for someone serious about it. I get hit up via DM by NR tag holders asking me how to fill their moose tag in my GMU.

View attachment 317116
I'm not hating on those who draw a great tag and work it hard. The 2023 Super Hunt thread was amazing. That guy worked his ass off and killed some amazing animals. Good for him.

I'm in the same place as @Elktrack , except we are talking about more than 20 years of applying for moose. I'm 62 and all the exercise in the world isn't slowing the entropy. I'm fading fast. I will sure as heck hunt it hard if I got the tag, but I may kill me. Its simply that time is against me in terms of good hunting years ahead of me.

I firmly believe that I will not draw a moose tag in the active years left to me. The fact that I as long as I keep applying for moose, I have no hope of a premium controlled hunt elk tag or any rifle pronghorn tag either stings more every year.

I have essentially put in all the best hunting years available to me without drawing a big three. I'm not afraid to work for it. I'm regularly applying in the best odds units Filtering2.0 says to try. Those are backcountry units. I have the damned things in my yard but I will never draw a tag for one in my home GMU. I still have a sheep or goat hunt in me, but not for much longer.

I did not consider the draw odds in my proposal because to me they are essentially already infinitesimal. Recruitment rates for the Big Three in Idaho are not good. This is a diminishing resource. Seeing as many of you are so invested, I may withdraw the proposal.

If this was only about upping my odds I would be proposing no NR opportunity. I'm not.

Some of you have already filled a OIL tag, good on you. A lot of us have not. Just want to hear you say it. Keep applying for big three while the chances of drawing either a big three or any pronghorn or quality deer or elk hunt fade away.

Meanwhile, the legislature wants to hand Big Three tags to outfitted NR hunters just because they shot an F'ing wolf? The Legislature appears to care two shits about the odds of resident hunters.

So if, as @Big Fin would say, we need to make the pie bigger, my next proposal will be that we move to Alaskan tag punching rules for Big Three in Idaho. Hell, for all big game.
Draw blood and you are done. Punch your tag and go home. Be sure to leave your pocket money with the local businesses on the way out. Folks are shooting more than they are tagging. Quotas are so small, that quite literally means fewer tags being issued.

Dude draw a moose tag and go hunt.
Last year we had 6 bull moose hunts with 30% or better odds one unit had 100% and another had 76%. With your proposal those odds would be a fraction of a percent.

 

[Elkmagnet]

You are going to hate me. My suggestion is to leave big three alone, allow only putting in for two species of the regular controlled hunts, 2 year layoff after drawing an antlerless or either sex tag, and 3 year layoff for all antlered draws.

Seems reasonable.

 

[fowladdict]

Well give yourself an at-bat buddy, tell us your rationale before you tell us we’re going to hate you.

I’m a better pitcher than a hitter. Off speed pitches create an opportunity to work in the fastball in favor of the pitcher over the course of an at bat.

In a nutshell the growing Resident population has lowered draw odds. And I’d rather have my name in the hat for two tags with better draw odds than have my name in the hat for 3 to 4 hunts with lower draw odds.

Oh and make residents pick a season/zone for deer hunts in the general hunt.

 

[brymoore]

I’m a better pitcher than a hitter. Off speed pitches create an opportunity to work in the fastball in favor of the pitcher over the course of an at bat.

In a nutshell the growing Resident population has lowered draw odds. And I’d rather have my name in the hat for two tags with better draw odds than have my name in the hat for 3 to 4 hunts with lower draw odds.

Oh and make residents pick a season/zone for deer hunts in the general hunt.

The mule deer units need to become unit/weapon specific like elk at some point.

 

[44hunter45]

@44hunter45, even though some seasons extend beyond the end of the year, don’t the bag limits represent what you can take from 1/1 to 12/31? Having a license year not match the bag limit year could cause issues. In single bear units, would I be able to shoot only one bear in the 7/1 to 6/30 license year or would I be able to shoot two - one in the first six months of the license (fall) and one in the second (spring) since the license covers parts of two calendar years? If was able to shoot two in the license year and did, would that preclude me from buying a bear tag during the next license year until after the end of the calendar year?

I think your proposal would also cause an issue with controlled hunts. When I apply for MSG in the 4/1 to 4/30 application period, would I have to first buy the license for the next July 1 to June 30? The same would go for deer, elk, and antelope controlled hunts with an application period that ends the first part of June.

Re the December rush on licenses, isn’t the rush just in the first few days of December when NR tags go on sale? I find it hard to believe that I couldn’t walk into The Black Sheep or Cabelas in North Idaho pretty much any time in December except for the first three days and the three or four days before Christmas and not be able to get my license for the following year in 15 minutes or so.

I think your second proposal would hurt the odds of both groups - those applying for MSG and those applying for DEA. I remember what happened when Utah changed from allowing NRs to apply for only one limited entry species and one OIL species to letting NRs apply for everything. Random draw odds plummeted.

So, I guess you could say I am against your proposals. However, I still like hearing your stories about adventures in my old haunts, so keep those coming.

Good questions.
Lets look to California and Alaska.

California used the June-July system when I lived there. It worked very well. There would definitely be a complicated year during the transition. I'm looking at my last California license and it is labeled 1991/92 Sport Hunting License. The tags are marked the same. You simply stop thinking in calendar years. You would be able to legally shoot two bears on the 2025/26 license. One in Fall 25 and one in Spring 26.

I just applied for a 2025 Spring Bear hunt in Alaska using my 2023 NR hunting license. The rule is that you have to have a valid hunting license when you apply and a valid license when you hunt. So if I drew (which I did not) I would have to provide my valid license number for 2025 to get a locking tag to hunt.

 

[grizzly_]

I disagree on #2. The idea of increasing applications can be also said as "worsening odds."

Both LE & OIL would see additional applications for the same number of tags.

I don't support that.

 

[BAKPAKR]

Good questions.
Lets look to California and Alaska.

California used the June-July system when I lived there. It worked very well. There would definitely be a complicated year during the transition. I'm looking at my last California license and it is labeled 1991/92 Sport Hunting License. The tags are marked the same. You simply stop thinking in calendar years. You would be able to legally shoot two bears on the 2025/26 license. One in Fall 25 and one in Spring 26.

I just applied for a 2025 Spring Bear hunt in Alaska using my 2023 NR hunting license. The rule is that you have to have a valid hunting license when you apply and a valid license when you hunt. So if I drew (which I did not) I would have to provide my valid license number for 2025 to get a locking tag to hunt.

So, let’s make Idaho more like California. I don’t see any problem with that.

 

[fowladdict]

So how would a combo license work? Fish Jan through Dec and hunting June through May? I’m out.

 

[44hunter45]

All good feedback. You have shown me things I had not considered.

@Elkmagnet - IMHO - The 100% GMU you are citing is a waste of a OIL tag. Drawing it would just lock you out for another two years before you could put in for a unit with better than 0% harvest for the last decade.

So, let’s make Idaho more like California. I don’t see any problem with that.

When you were killing everything that walks here I was killing everything that walks down there. I left that place with good reason and long enough ago I'm almost considered "Old Idaho" by my neighbors. Their license system is about the only thing they did right. I still think about going back for a pig hunt again someday.

 

[44hunter45]

So how would a combo license work? Fish Jan through Dec and hunting June through May? I’m out.

Both would run July through June.

 

[fowladdict]

Both would run July through June.

Apologies…apparently reading isn’t my strong point. You mentioned that in your original post. Like you I lived in Cali over 20 years ago so I’m familiar with the difference. I’d be more likely to forget to buy a fishing license in July than January. Buy a three year license and call it good. I think you can even set up an automatic renewal.

 

[OverlordBear]

I support your number one but I’d never support number 2. I like that people have to only pick one good tag to apply for every year.

 

[Trial153]

Background, I apply for Idaho sheep almost every year. I might have missed one year out of the last 10-12.
It’s a very expensive draw for me if I am not using the license for another hunt, which is most years. I justify because my odds are very marginally higher, even with the NR cap.

If the change was made to allow additional applications speaking for myself one of two things would happen( again just my decision)
1) I wouldn’t apply because the odds wouldn’t justify the cost. ( not that they ever do …but you get the jist )
2) I would front the license fee and apply across the board for any an every controlled hunt I can. There by lowering odds for other people in draws I normally would not participate in.