Thoughts on Wolves?

[sreekers]

So I have grown up in Wyoming and right now there are two major subjects that are being talked about by hunters. One is the wolves and the effects that have come with, and the other is the natural gas industry explosion. I just wanted to hear what some thoughts are on the subject of the wolves?

Personally we need a season on them, and tommorow isn't soon enough based on the change in Elk numbers that I have seen in the inhabited areas. Currently our state is in a gridlock with the federal government over what status the state would give the wolves. Trophy vs. Predator, or a strictly regulated season, or a shoot on sight policy. I am ok with either as long as the trophy season would be very liberal.

Love to hear some feedback, especially from people in Alaska and Canada who have hunted them, and have a little more experience.

 

[Curly]

I think there should be a hunting season on them.

 

[AzSlim]

They have spread all over the state. I have relatives over by Crowheart and there is a pack there. Also, wolves were already in the state, didn't need to be reintroduced. My grandad & I saw one crossing the hiway above Burris in the late 70's and heard them howl while backpacking up Dry Creek canyon on the rez. Not only have the had a big impact on the elk herd they knock the heck out of the herd bulls too. After the rut the bulls spend a lot of time with their noses in the grass trying to get some energy back to make it thru the winter after expending so much fighting and breeding. This makes them easy targets for a pack. And from articles I have read they, the wolves, are now in Colorado & Kansas.

So far here in Az they are only in the eastern part of the state, and those are Mexican Grey Wolves which aren't as big, and haven't had much of an impact with elk - but livestock & smaller game has taken a hit.

 

[carbonarcher]

My opinion is simple. They reproduce and multiply as quickly as coyotes. Most states have coyotes in a shoot on sight policy, and they are maintaining their levels just fine. Wolves will eventually need to be moved to much the same policy or they will continue to spread throughout the west and will change hunting as we know it, permanently. Once the ungulate population is lowered to a certain level, the hunting opportunities will be greatly decreased and we will have all lost.

I am not playing chicken little here, look at places in Alaska that have turned into "predator pits" because of overpopulation of grizzlies and wolves. They have had to return to shooting wolves from airplanes in some areas in Alaska and they already have a very liberal hunting/trapping season which runs for around six months! We are never going to be able to hunt them from planes in the lower 48 states. I think Wyoming has the correct idea. They need to be removed from the protection of the ESA and be managed solely by the state. But to do that they are going to have to go to a shoot on sight policy.

 

[HONDO]

I am in agreement with carbonarcher, unfortunately I think this problem is going to get worse before it gets better. They really opened pandoras box when they reintroduced wolves. Without strict state control you will never close that box. I think that uneducated public outcry will overwhelm our elected officials and they will make bad decisions in regards to managing wolves.

 

[Dangerous Dave]

Well put, Hondo. Once we allowed the wolves in, we aren't going to be allowed to do anything with them -forget about ever hunting wolves- it'll never happen. If I'm wrong -I'll eat my words. Idaho, Wyoming and Montana are now experiencing the same level of wildlife depredation that California has had to deal with since 1990 when the preservationists succeded in dupeing a majority vote from the state's population by passing Proposition 119, and banned mountain lion hunting. It is the antihunting management idealism of the 21st Century: 'Reintroduce wolves to depredate the wildlife hunters hunt.' We didn't get our positive conservation message out quickly enough and we lost a major battle. I don't think its too late, but we better get ready for what the preservationist are going to dream up next.

 

[mtmiller]

I don't have a problem with opening a wolf season. I think they can be properly managed by hunting. I don't think they will be the demise of every four-legged furry critter out there and I do know they will never mulitiply like coyotes (not even close).

 

[schmalts]

kEEEEEL THEM, Keeel them all and issuie me a damn elk tag instead.

 

[TheTone]

I think Wyoming needs to quit its grandstanding BS and submit a plan the feds can agree with so they can get on with delisting. My own personal belief is that through regulated hunting there will be no real threat to them going back on "the list". In order for them to extirpated originally it took government trapping and poisoning, two things we'll probably never see again used in wolf management, except to maybe counteract serious livestock depredations.

 

[lilbiggun]

The wolf is almost the perfect predator the way they hunt in packs. I've been telling folks in the lower 48 to get together and try to start regulating them for years. If the huggers win its gonna be over. we have that problems (1 of many, wolves arent the only problem) up here. Luckily we have a very wolf un-friendly govenor (only good quality about him).

You got to keep the numbers in check. I'm against total extermination, you got to have a balance of nature, but you cant let them be like rabbits.

Huggers say they only kill the sick and they eat what they kill. Thats the biggest line of bull shit I have heard (out of a non-politician that is ). I'm sure you folks down there have seen some cases where they kill for no reason. I think were up to about 3-400 killed by arial shooting (legal with permit) in some areas. its a good start, now we got to knock out a few bears and it would be a great start.

 

[ZAMBONIMAN]

There are a couple big differences between wolves in Alaska and Canada then there is in the lower 48. First is the numbers, Alaska has tens of thousands of them, same as Canada. What are the numbers in the Western states, a thousand or two? Just wait until the first good case of the mange goes through them and watch their numbers drop, it happens here in Minnesota every year in certain parts of the state. I'm sure most of you guys out west can relate to mange problems with the coyotes, some years they are everywhere, and some years you see very few of them. Second, Alaska and Canada have had so many wolves for so long, they have had the hunting seasons to go along with them, and the tree huggers and granola crunchers haven't been able to change too many of their game and fish laws. Here in Minnesota we have about 4000 wolves, yes that is thousands. We have more deer than ever before, but we also haven't had a real severe winter for quite a few years either. I would love if we had a wolf season, and they have talked here for years to give the state the power to keep tabs of them (Federal trappers kill a couple hundred a year from livestock depredation), but I don't think I will ever see it in my lifetime. To be honest, I don't see how the Western states will ever see it either when you can look at Minnesota with all of our wolves. Just my opinion people, don't beat me up too bad.....

 

[schelmster]

The first problem was when they put the first wolves in the park they gave them shots and inoculations to protect them from all the bad things they might catch in the wild. That doesn't sound like a wild animal to me, they were better protected than the average house dog when it came to illness. If they wanted to introduce wild wolves maybe but these were super wolves that were given a big head start in the wild which is BULLSH!T. I do agree that Wyoming needs to get a real plan together and then slowly but surely they will start allow shooting of the wolves, hopefully.

 

[sreekers]

Just to add another thought. There aren't any legitimate numbers on how many wolves there really are. The last legitimate report I heard which was a year ago showed they had moved as far south as Sandy Utah. Wyoming's reason for going with the predator status was because the numbers are way higher than what the granola boys are saying.

The other problem is that it is a compound problem. Residents of Big Piney have been seeing wolves for years in their backyards. One lady even had her cat taken, she watched in horror. Adding new wolves to a tiny population created an explosion and massive expansion of a nonresident animal. This explosion has brought the numbers far higher than the huggers reccomended carrying capacity.

 

[ZAMBONIMAN]

Wolves here have been peeling pets out of back yards for a long time, I have heard a story of a lady having her dog taken off the leash as she was walking it, not totally proven but it came from a reliable source. People in town here had 3 wolves kill a fawn in their backyard, and the wolves came back the next day and ripped their bird feeder off their deck and ate the sunflower seeds. It will take a child getting killed by wolves before anything is done with them here. The people with the bird feeder incident live 6 blocks from the elementary school. I had a pair of wolves come down the hill into my backyard this winter and check out the neighbors garbage cans. They are getting a little to close for comfort, but there are many deer that live here in town all year round. It will take people with deep pockets to fend off the tree people to get wolves de-listed.

 

[Erik in AK]

My opinion is simple. They reproduce and multiply as quickly as coyotes. Most states have coyotes in a shoot on sight policy, and they are maintaining their levels just fine. Wolves will eventually need to be moved to much the same policy or they will continue to spread throughout the west and will change hunting as we know it, permanently. Once the ungulate population is lowered to a certain level, the hunting opportunities will be greatly decreased and we will have all lost.

I am not playing chicken little here, look at places in Alaska that have turned into "predator pits" because of overpopulation of grizzlies and wolves. They have had to return to shooting wolves from airplanes in some areas in Alaska and they already have a very liberal hunting/trapping season which runs for around six months! We are never going to be able to hunt them from planes in the lower 48 states. I think Wyoming has the correct idea. They need to be removed from the protection of the ESA and be managed solely by the state. But to do that they are going to have to go to a shoot on sight policy.

Not exactly...to both highlighted comments
First, wolves do not reproduce as rapidly as coyotes. Typically, only the Alpha bitch in a wolf pack bears young whereas nearly every mature coyote bitch has a litter every season. Plus since wolves are larger in body they require more calories which drives their larger home ranges. Coyotes do kill fawns and calves and occasionally will cooperate to bring down adults, but mostly they eat small game and rodents. Wolves eat ungulates almost exclusively.

Alaska DOES NOT have an overpopulation of either bears or wolves in any GMU. The intensified predator management (aerial shooting) that you have been hearing about is the political band-aid to a habitat problem. Moose populations are down in the central Kuskokwim River country due to over mature habitat (they need a big fire) and heavy subsistence hunting. The big predators (especially wolves) are very efficient at keeping already depressed moose populations down, almost indefinitely. The wolves are competing directly with people for their winter meat and so the wolves get suppressed until the moose recover. Remember too that Alaska is more than twice the size of Texas with only 600,000+ people and half of those live in 1 city. Our seasons are long and liberal, especially in the bush GMU's because there's virtually no hunting pressure.

Final thought...a lot of you fellas who grew up hunting in the western states grew up around artificially high elk populations, due in part to artifically low predator populations. Some of you who complain that the wolves are "wiping out the elk" are simply seeing the results of your elk herds being "re-educated", and its making your local elk a little tougher to hunt than they used to be.

All that said, I agree that the best way to manage wolves in the Rocky Mtn states is through legal hunting.

 

[Ultrahunter]

Just to add another thought. There aren't any legitimate numbers on how many wolves there really are.


I agree sreekers, its hard to find any stats that aren't jaded by an agenda, from either side of the coin.

 

[lilbiggun]

Erik, I kinda disagree with you on the overpopulation of predators. In some area they are over populated. In these areas it is partially fins and feathers fault. for years they allowed everybody and there brother to hunt ungalets. Not to many preds were taken now the numbers are down and the preds are taken over. McGrath is doing real well since they relocacted bears a couple of years ago, preds can be a problem. Same goes for the 40 mile herd area. everybody wants bou and moose, once again preds have taken over, same as the nelchina.

Like I said in my last post it isnt all predators fault, its years of mismanagement, folks moving into the bush and the preds do have a play into it. Hopefully the taylor will recover since most of it is burned but if the calf mortality doesnt slow down, it points to something. TIme will tell.

I still believe the numbers have to be kept in check and not total termination.

 

[carbonarcher]

Erik in AK, thanks for the info, I must admit I was unaware that only the alpha bitch was the only one who bore pups. So you are correct that they do not reproduce like coyotes. I appreciate the info. I do however disagree with you in the fact that most of us grew up around artificially high elk populations.

I grew up on the north fork of the flathead river, where we had EVERY single large predator, other than polar bears, that exist on the North American continent. I watched wolves take down a cow elk in 1979. Grizzlies, my father guided for and we hunted every year. Mountain Lion as well. What has now happened is we have artificailly increased the number of wolves in that area by transplanting an entirely different species, thereby increasing depredation on the elk. Those elk didn't need re-educating. Much like some area's in Alaska, they needed an F&G department that would protect them from the greenies and give them a break. My folks have seen a dozen different wolves from their front porch this year, since january. Dad's waiting for the first grizzlies to show up. Usually 3 or 4 hang around the house every spring. I love the predators, and so do my folks, thats one of the reasons they live there, but their number have not in anyway been kept in check.

This animal, the wolf, needs to be managed with science and not emotion, and not by someone who has never, nor ever intends to spend more than a 1 week summer vacation there looking the place over.

 

[MarvB]

Zambo:

It will take a child getting killed by wolves before anything is done with them here.

Sorry bud, that's like wishing in one hand and chitting in the other--See which one gets full the quickest!

Not that I would want to see any kid mauled/killed but even if it happens the huggers will just blame the parents for lack of responsibility |oo
We've lost joggers out here to lions and are NO CLOSER to getting our cat season back then we were 25 years ago........

 

[JoseCuervo]

The sky is falling, the sky is falling.......