The road to a trophy

[smalls]

At the age of 28, I'm already behind the 8-ball by not having started the "point building" process earlier in life. There are some tags whose odds are so long, requiring max points for which I will not even attempt to draw. Plus, I'd rather accumulate a bunch of hunts in good units rather than an infant's handful of hunts in elite units.

It is interesting to me to look at what a tag will actually cost you over the 10+ years it will take to draw in some units and the return is what... perhaps the same odds of running across a 380" bull in the elite unit as it would be finding a 340" in a well scouted general unit (not behind every tree, but a possibility of seeing).

So my question for the residents of HT land is if you had one hunt, call it 5 days, to put down a "trophy" animal of whatever species do you think your odds would be better to hunt a) a general area of your home state for which you have great knowledge or b) an elite out of state area for which you've never stepped foot in?

Perhaps that is an unfair question because of the sliding scale of expectations depending on where one hunts (i.e.- a 340" bull is a shooter in probably every "general" unit in the country, but perhaps not in the Gila or top Utah units).

 

[BuzzH]

In the event that you dont have a bunch of money to spend on top tags...you're only route is to accumulate points and apply.

My strategy has been pretty simple the last 10-12 years and that is to apply in "GOOD" units but not to worry much about the "GREAT" units. Without a bunch of points or max points, your odds are either really bad best case...and impossible at worse case.

For instance, I apply for the general elk tags in AZ, not the best time of year to hunt, but the elk are still there and with some effort (and some good help), a very good bull is possible. I guess I kind of compromise between OTC hunts which take a bunch of effort and the super units at the best times.

I do tend to put forth way more effort on the harder to draw tags rather than the general tags I can get every year.

I set a goal for myself to just have some good representative animals over my entire hunting career...I dont need to have a 400 inch bull, a 200 inch mule deer buck, etc. I want a lot of hunting time and a decent collection of trophies (eventually) that high light the effort and time.

I think too many people put too much emphasis on scores and trophies, IMO. Not everyone that draws a good tag in a good unit kills a 340 bull...and thats just the reality of it. Even with the top tags in most states, a true B&C animal is a very rare critter...and thats across the board. There are a few exceptions (MT sheep for instance), but all in all a great tag doesnt necessarily mean B&C animal.

I'm probably the last person to be giving any advice on the subject, but if I were in your position what would it hurt to apply in NM and AZ every year for a good unit and then just hunt OTC in Montana the years you dont draw? Be selective in MT and dont shoot a bull unless it meets your personal criteria for a trophy.

Win-Win if you ask me.

 

[mdhunter]

You are starting way earlier than myself as I was 38 before I got the itch. If you have the money and want the tag that particular year always apply in states like New Mexico and/or Idaho that don't have point systems. I drew a great elk archery hunt in New Mexico unit 17 Sept 19-24 for this year. The odds were long (5%) but hey, every now and then your number comes up.

I pulled an antelope tag in Wyoming last year in a "non trophy" unit and had a great time and harvested my first antelope. We did this with no points and a little homework. Your idea of tags in non trophy units is certainly very doable.

Utah and Nevada are great states to build points without having to front cash doing so. Good luck and apply, apply, apply.

 

[rosco]

you must buy a license in Utah and Nevada to apply (if you want points in NV anyway)

who knows what the point creep will do, but if you want a bow tag, or a late tag in Utah,(elk) good units are not out of reach, some even offer 1 in 10 random odds.

so if you have the money, its never too late to start. if you dont where will you be 10 years from now?

 

[smalls]

if you dont where will you be 10 years from now?

Or, how "elite" will some of these states be in 10 years... Utah in particular as there seems to be some teeth gnashing about how they are managing their trophy units. Wouldn't you be pissed to invest a bunch of money applying for tags only to end up with a herd with the trophy quality of Idaho (nothing against ID, it's just not a relative mecca of trophy hunters).

I understand the pay to play, make the pie bigger mantra and I am playing that game. My strategy is like Buzz's as I just want the opportunity to hunt "good" units at a fairly regular frequency.

My biggest question is whether you think you have a better chance at a "wallhanger" hunting your backyard knowing every nook and cranny or hunting unfamiliar territory with a greater ratio of big'uns.

 

[mdhunter]

Hey Smalls,

At 28 you have time to burn. My opinion is all states will probably be more "elite" in the future than they are now. I personally hope not however the only insurance I have is to buy as many points in every state as I can afford each year.
My prior recommendation (Nevada & Utah) was to apply in the states which costs least cost per species (based on total cost; ie license etc) I didn't have enough cash at 28 to apply the way I do now. Build points for the species your want to hunt in the next ten years and you wont regret it.

 

[Outdooraddict]

Well said Buzz.

Smalls- to answer your question- IF you're after that one TROPHY I'd pick B. Hunting the limited areas in CO vs. over the counter tags is a horrible tease. Sure there are some monsters out there on OTC units, but your odds are much higher in the limited/elite areas. It's about the odds- the more trophies I'm around, the more opportunities I have to harvest it. And on OTC, you run into that ONE monster... and blow it, that freakin sucks.

On the other hand- since I am no way financially able to go out of state, I'll just stick close to home.

 

[Oak]

smalls, I think it really depends on what you are hunting. I think my odds of killing a really big bull elk in Colorado OTC units are very slim, even if I hunt my whole life here. So if I want to kill a big bull, I think I should be applying in states like AZ and NM. On the other hand, if I want a big muley, I like my chances hunting year after here here in CO with even average tags versus a once in a lifetime trip to the AZ Strip.

I got a later start than you in the points game in every state except CO. I'm 37, and the most points I have in any state is 7 for moose and sheep in WY. However, my philosophy is to play the points game in as many states as I can afford, and hopefully get one or two hunts in those states in my life. You're not even halfway through your hunting "career". The cost aside, there are few western draws I would hesitate to jump into at your age. Sure, states could start managing differently, trophy quality can go down, they can change the points system, etc. But there may also be some great opportunities when you're 55 years old, all your kids are married off and making grandbabies, and you can actually afford to take some time and money and go hunting. And there you sit with 26 points burning a hole in your pocket.

So I'd say that if you want to kill a really big muley or pronghorn in your life, start applying in states like CO, NM, and NV. If you're looking for a big bull elk, moose, or bighorn ram, you might do just as well at home.

 

[rosco]

smalls, i wouldnt worry about quality of elk. Arizona and New Mexico have been doing it for along time. and dont forget Wyoming and Montana, they often get over looked. Utah is still hashing out trophy vs oppertunity, but i think its safe to say Utah will continue to kill B&C bulls for along time.

what you are seeing now in Utah is greed from guys with 10+ points invested (myself included) they (we)dont want to see tag numbers increased. but if i am honest with myself, i know we could double tags in most units and still keep good quality. if you have payed attention that has happened in the last few years, and will probly double again in years to come. we may have to actually hunt to kill a big bull in Utah in the future! not saying a 360 type bull is a gurentee now or in the past, like Buzz said they are rare critters no matter where you hunt.

so i guess what i am saying is, dont worry about things you can't controll. if the investment is gonna set you back too bad, then dont do it!

 

[Grady]

Some really good advice on this thread. On a subject I've often wondered about.

I'd be interested to know where some of you draw the line on number of states and up front application money.

I know some people who have over $10k yearly tied up in the apps process. I can't (won't) do anywhere near that.

Any idea what average is (so I can justify it to my wife) ?