Talk me out of a Knight Ultra Lite

[cgasner1]

So instead of needlessly insulting people, let's get back to the topic at hand. Why did you say the plunger style gun doesn't work well with BH 209? Is that the experience people are having with Knight rifles? As I said, I plan to move back to Triple 7 but I am intrigued by your claim that plunger guns don't work well with BH 209.

If I remember correctly it’s a pressure issue and pushes the plunger back. Either blackhorn or knight says not to due it. I tried it anyways had shitty ignition and went back to 777 I can’t remember exactly why it was before Covid

 

[cgasner1]

Now that’s false advertising

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

If I remember correctly it’s a pressure issue and pushes the plunger back. Either blackhorn or knight says not to due it. I tried it anyways had shitty ignition and went back to 777 I can’t remember exactly why it was before Covid

Interesting. I’ll try both today and see how it goes. I am down to just muzzleloader 209 primers, which bh209 already doesn’t like, but that will actually be a good test for this gun. If there is a problem, it’s going to show up with those ml primers first.

 

[Nick87]

My older knight disc would hang fire on bh209 fwiw.

 

[utah400elk]

All my Knight rifles shot BH209 very well. I did do a conversion to shoot LRMP because I think they are easier to load than 209 primers. However, I have not had any issues with factory rifles with bare primer shooting BH209.

 

[cgasner1]

It was the year we went to Colorado for muzzy so I was trying to put the best gun together I could per the state regs. I actually went away from the 209 primers and used musket caps because of how big of a pain in the ass it is to get those 209 out of that gun for a second shot. You about need a knife to pry the used one out

 

[Tikka06]

I have only one load. It’s the first one I tried and it shoots .75 groups at 100. 110gr BH209, 290 Barnes TMZ, Winchester 209 primer. I shoot 777 out of my hawkens and I have no doubt it would work as well. As far as break in I did nothing special. With the BH209 you can shoot longer without cleaning seems like. If you go 777 or pyrodex you will likely have to clean every 7-10 shots or sooner. Be sure to use a real 209 primer and not one for muzzleloading. No hang fires ever.

 

[cgasner1]

All my Knight rifles shot BH209 very well. I did do a conversion to shoot LRMP because I think they are easier to load than 209 primers. However, I have not had any issues with factory rifles with bare primer shooting BH209.

Is your knight rifle a plunger style? From my understanding that is the issue with the bh209 I was using real primers not the ones for muzzy and still had some wild hang fires

 

[utah400elk]

I have had three UL and a Disk Extreme. All of them have shot BH209 without issues…when using bare primer set up. When I first got my Disk Extreme, I had hang fires when I tried to use the red plastic inserts that hold the primers. They didn’t give a proper seal and caused issues. The bare primer solved all issues.

 

[Nick87]

I have had three UL and a Disk Extreme. All of them have shot BH209 without issues…when using bare primer set up. When I first got my Disk Extreme, I had hang fires when I tried to use the red plastic inserts that hold the primers. They didn’t give a proper seal and caused issues. The bare primer solved all issues.

Your going to have to explain that a little better for me, please. You discarded the plastic jacket?

 

[utah400elk]

You can order the Knight rifles with a bare primer set up. I do not use the red plastic jacket.

If you are having hang fire issues with your Knight and you are using the plastic jacket with BH209, then that is the issue.

I am not sure which model you have? However, I have switched all my Knight rifles to the LRMP system. The brass module holds a large rifle mag primer. They are much easier to load for me.

This is what the conversion looks like.

I have never had a problem getting my Knight Rifles to shoot crazy good.


This is a group from my UL. The bottom is a three shot group then a small adjustment and the top is a 9 shot group with arrowhead bullet, and 117 grn (volume) BH209. (.45 caliber UL)

My disk extreme .50 caliber shoots awesome with Furry 320 grn universal with max load BH209 and with 75-80 grns (volume) BH209 and 460 no-excuse bullets.

 

[Nick87]

You can order the Knight rifles with a bare primer set up. I do not use the red plastic jacket.

If you are having hang fire issues with your Knight and you are using the plastic jacket with BH209, then that is the issue.

I am not sure which model you have? However, I have switched all my Knight rifles to the LRMP system. The brass module holds a large rifle mag primer. They are much easier to load for me.

View attachment 352782This is what the conversion looks like.

I have never had a problem getting my Knight Rifles to shoot crazy good.


View attachment 352783This is a group from my UL. The bottom is a three shot group then a small adjustment and the top is a 9 shot group with arrowhead bullet, and 117 grn (volume) BH209. (.45 caliber UL)

My disk extreme .50 caliber shoots awesome with Furry 320 grn universal with max load BH209 and with 75-80 grns (volume) BH209 and 460 no-excuse bullets.

That's interesting. I didn't know they even made this. When I talked to the guy at knight this summer he pretty much just said nope, can't use bh209. Mine is an original disc, with the red jackets. But I just picked up a new to me stainless disc with the orange style. Should be here in a few days. You just made my day a little.

 

[utah400elk]

I would look for a bare primer conversion for the original Disk…if they are made. There are also ways to shore up the seal from the bare primer to stop excessive blow back. All of these things will make your rifle shoot cleaner and ensure BH209 ignition. Good luck!

 

[Nick87]

I would look for a bare primer conversion for the original Disk…if they are made. There are also ways to shore up the seal from the bare primer to stop excessive blow back. All of these things will make your rifle shoot cleaner and ensure BH209 ignition. Good luck!

Thanks.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

Short range trip today for initial impressions. First tried BH209 with a CCI Muzzleloader 209 primer. Not the ideal primers for BH209 already, so I figured if what cgasner1 has said is true, it would certainly show up with the CCI ML primers. And it did. Hang fire but also dirty blowback, so the issue could be sealing that primer better as Utah400elk suggests. Wasn't too worried since as I said, I was planning to go back to Triple7 anyway. Next several shots were all 90g Triple7 (FFFg) and the same CCI ML 209 primers. All shot great and into a tiny group at 50 yards (all I had to work with, but good enough for initial range test). So that part went pretty well.

What DIDN'T go very well was loading the bullets and swabbing. That bore is TIGHT compared to my CVA Optima V2. Same bullets and plastic sabots that load easily in my CVA were really, really hard to get started in the Knight and still hard to fully seat over the powder. On top of that, I loathe multi-piece ramrods. I'm so used to my CVA Optima one piece rod with the palmsaver, that I never really gave a thought the what kind of ramrod the Knight would come with. I was very disappointed to see that it had a multi-piece ramrod, similar to the CVA Wolf that I used to own (didn't like that one either). It was basically impossible for me to load a saboted bullet with the factory ramrod by itself. I had to use a short starter, then the CVA ramrod with the palmsaver just so I could shoot the .45 cal bullets in plastic sabots. I'm aware I can get different diameter bullets and that ML bores vary from model to model and even gun to gun. But I was hoping for a more plug and play situation.

The chamber is pretty dirty after 6 shots with those CCI ML 209's, so I'll be pulling the breech plug and cleaning it, the barrel and the bolt face tonight.

It did shoot a very tight group, but at 50 yards it's hard to tell, so more range time is in order. I was happy that there were zero hangfires with the CCI ML 209's and Triple7 combo.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

You can order the Knight rifles with a bare primer set up. I do not use the red plastic jacket.

If you are having hang fire issues with your Knight and you are using the plastic jacket with BH209, then that is the issue.

I am not sure which model you have? However, I have switched all my Knight rifles to the LRMP system. The brass module holds a large rifle mag primer. They are much easier to load for me.

View attachment 352782This is what the conversion looks like.

I have never had a problem getting my Knight Rifles to shoot crazy good.


View attachment 352783This is a group from my UL. The bottom is a three shot group then a small adjustment and the top is a 9 shot group with arrowhead bullet, and 117 grn (volume) BH209. (.45 caliber UL)

My disk extreme .50 caliber shoots awesome with Furry 320 grn universal with max load BH209 and with 75-80 grns (volume) BH209 and 460 no-excuse bullets.

Great info. Thanks for sharing. I knew about the LRMP and it sure seems like a good option. I tried something similar (but with small rifle primers) years ago for my Ruger 77/50.

 

[Nick87]

Short range trip today for initial impressions. First tried BH209 with a CCI Muzzleloader 209 primer. Not the ideal primers for BH209 already, so I figured if what cgasner1 has said is true, it would certainly show up with the CCI ML primers. And it did. Hang fire but also dirty blowback, so the issue could be sealing that primer better as Utah400elk suggests. Wasn't too worried since as I said, I was planning to go back to Triple7 anyway. Next several shots were all 90g Triple7 (FFFg) and the same CCI ML 209 primers. All shot great and into a tiny group at 50 yards (all I had to work with, but good enough for initial range test). So that part went pretty well.

What DIDN'T go very well was loading the bullets and swabbing. That bore is TIGHT compared to my CVA Optima V2. Same bullets and plastic sabots that load easily in my CVA were really, really hard to get started in the Knight and still hard to fully seat over the powder. On top of that, I loathe multi-piece ramrods. I'm so used to my CVA Optima one piece rod with the palmsaver, that I never really gave a thought the what kind of ramrod the Knight would come with. I was very disappointed to see that it had a multi-piece ramrod, similar to the CVA Wolf that I used to own (didn't like that one either). It was basically impossible for me to load a saboted bullet with the factory ramrod by itself. I had to use a short starter, then the CVA ramrod with the palmsaver just so I could shoot the .45 cal bullets in plastic sabots. I'm aware I can get different diameter bullets and that ML bores vary from model to model and even gun to gun. But I was hoping for a more plug and play situation.

The chamber is pretty dirty after 6 shots with those CCI ML 209's, so I'll be pulling the breech plug and cleaning it, the barrel and the bolt face tonight.

It did shoot a very tight group, but at 50 yards it's hard to tell, so more range time is in order. I was happy that there were zero hangfires with the CCI ML 209's and Triple7 combo.

Try some crush rib sabots, or hornady bore drivers, or thors. Fwiw the bore drivers loaded just a hair easier for me. But the thors shot a touch better.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

Try some crush rib sabots, or hornady bore drivers, or thors. Fwiw the bore drivers loaded just a hair easier for me. But the thors shot a touch better.

I was only able to load the green crush ribs with .44 cals, and that was with a considerable amount of effort. Was hoping to use the .45 cals with orange sabots that I've been using in my CVA.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

Cutting my losses. I have too many irons in the fire and don't want to take the time to "get to know" this gun. I'm sure someone else will be thrilled to get it at 1/3 the retail price, and will use the heck out of it, so I just listed it on the classifieds. Time to move on.

 

[Mr. UML]

Because not all states allow it in their ML seasons, including where I am now.

Well that sucks, but in that case, CVA Optima V2. Easy choice. The Knights look beautiful but their plunger system is ass and they're all a bitch to clean. Do not recommend.

If you didn't have the restriction, the UML is a beast of a weapon.