SIG BDX system question

[Gila]

I wanted a range finder with an inclinometer. My old luepold is still working fine out to 400 yards though. Thought I would look for some good modern features without breaking the bank. Anyway, I ended up with a Sig Sauer KILO1800. I bought an open box for like half the price even though the box had never been opened. I really didn't need a scope as the one I have on the rifle has not ever failed me for the last 15 years. I downloaded the BDX app to my phone so I could configure the Kilo and was impressed with what the system can actually do. Anyway, I ended up getting a sierra3bdx scope for a good price that was a blemished item, even though the box with a small corner tear had never been opened. I have figured everything out except the windage. The configuration choice is symmetrical or directional windage. I guess I could call customer service but I would like to hear from a user of the system if possible. Thanks in advance!

 

[ZBB]

https://www.sigsauer.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/18SIG_SIERRA3BDX-MANUAL-7400221-01-R03_134x86mm.pdf

Page 19, I would assume this information would’ve came with your scope but I could be wrong. The way I read that is the symmetrical gives you several different wind holds for what I would assume is different angles that the wind is blowing, full value vs half or something along those lines. And the way I read the directional is it gives you one wind reading, so you’d have to figure out the direction and value on your own? I’m curious if all the dots show up in the scope or if you pick which one you will use on your phone and it sends it to the scope? I don’t have one of the scopes, this is just how I read it. Probably going to be some trial and error on your part I would think. Good luck to you.
Zach

 

[Gila]

Thank you Zach

The manual reads that symmetrical is for: "varying wind conditions". -G-

The wind speed and direction is gathered by the bdx phone app and then synced to the LRF. The LRF then sends the wind hold data (once the target is lit up) to the scope. My phone has the wind data grayed out so I can't put the wind data in manually. I don't know how the bdx phone app gathers the wind data at this point.

 

[Gila]

I have an old phone (samsung note3) that I use as a GPS for OnX maps which no longer has cell service. I connect it to wireless internet and load it up with the offline maps that I will use during the hunting trip. I have also loaded the BDX app and the Hornady ballistics app in case I need to go manual on the scope. This old phone works well to configure BDX and sync the ballistic data. The BDX app takes environmental data from the phone (or tablet) that is connected to the internet. The BDX app sends the environmental and ballistic data (via bluetooth) to the LRF (KILO). The LRF crunches the enviro, ballistic and ranging data once the target is lit up. The LRF then sends the elevation and windage hold data to the scope (sierra3). The reason why I could not get enviro data was because the GPS on the phone couldn't get the satellites with me sitting in the living room....Doh!

Symmetrical wind holds still remain somewhat of a mystery and I will be contacting customer support on Monday. I suppose it does make sense given the scenario that if you chase a bull over a ridge; the wind data will change (as well as the other enviro data) with a different shot and target location. I would think that Sig would have given the KILO LRF the capability to accept enviro data from a hand held unit like the Kestrel. There is no wireless internet in the majority of places I hunt and that enviro data isn't accurate enough to rely on for windage, elevation holds anyway. I suppose I could get a cheap handheld unit and input the enviro data manually. However, that is just another layer of complexity and hardware, as well as the time spent to make the shot. I could just do what I've done all of these years...throw up a handful of grass and dirt then send the round. However, that isn't what I paid for.

 

[mtmuley]

How much time is it going to take to do all that before you are ready for a shot? mtmuley

 

[Gila]

The "idea" is to load the ballistic profile and the enviro data into the LRF beforehand. Then when you are hunting and the game comes along, it is only a matter of clicking the LRF, lining up the hold dots on the scope, and sending the round. The problem I have with the system is to get local, real time enviro data into the LRF. I bought the system to make an ethical and more confident shot on game at the usual ranges with the rifle I have the personal skills for.
.

 

[redwoood]

I have an old phone (samsung note3) that I use as a GPS for OnX maps which no longer has cell service. I connect it to wireless internet and load it up with the offline maps that I will use during the hunting trip. I have also loaded the BDX app and the Hornady ballistics app in case I need to go manual on the scope. This old phone works well to configure BDX and sync the ballistic data. The BDX app takes environmental data from the phone (or tablet) that is connected to the internet. The BDX app sends the environmental and ballistic data (via bluetooth) to the LRF (KILO). The LRF crunches the enviro, ballistic and ranging data once the target is lit up. The LRF then sends the elevation and windage hold data to the scope (sierra3). The reason why I could not get enviro data was because the GPS on the phone couldn't get the satellites with me sitting in the living room....Doh!

Symmetrical wind holds still remain somewhat of a mystery and I will be contacting customer support on Monday. I suppose it does make sense given the scenario that if you chase a bull over a ridge; the wind data will change (as well as the other enviro data) with a different shot and target location. I would think that Sig would have given the KILO LRF the capability to accept enviro data from a hand held unit like the Kestrel. There is no wireless internet in the majority of places I hunt and that enviro data isn't accurate enough to rely on for windage, elevation holds anyway. I suppose I could get a cheap handheld unit and input the enviro data manually. However, that is just another layer of complexity and hardware, as well as the time spent to make the shot. I could just do what I've done all of these years...throw up a handful of grass and dirt then send the round. However, that isn't what I paid for.

I have the sig2400abs...I use it for my holdover and judge the wind and consult my cheat sheet.

I don't feel that anything is fool proof when it comes to wind.

 

[mtmuley]

The "idea" is to load the ballistic profile and the enviro data into the LRF beforehand. Then when you are hunting and the game comes along, it is only a matter of clicking the LRF, lining up the hold dots on the scope, and sending the round. The problem I have with the system is to get local, real time enviro data into the LRF. I bought the system to make an ethical and more confident shot on game at the usual ranges with the rifle I have the personal skills for.
.

Good luck. I'll stay with the old fashioned system. mtmuley

 

[Gila]

Supposedly, the KILO2400abs LRF will only pair with either the Kestrel 5700 elite or the Garmin 5701. That's another $600 or so to plop down on the system. I have the KILO1800 LRF which does not have the "engine" to pair with an external device which is fine by me. I will probably just get a cheap handheld wind meter that I will only use if there is a stiff cross wind.

 

[Gila]

I am starting to feel like an idiot for buying the Sig Sierra3BDX scope. The BDX system is a pile of crap IMHO! The system is supposed to supply windage and elevation hold dots to the scope's reticle. The accuracy of the data is just "smoke and mirrors". The elevation hold is so, so and will only be ball park. The windage hold is totally bogus. The only way to get atmospheric data into the system is one by one hand entry into the BDX app on the cell phone. I told the customer service rep that you people are living in a dream if you think a hunter can use atmospheric data from the internet. Obviously, the only viable enviro data (like wind speed and direction) must be sensed where you are taking the shot. Sig touts the BDX system as having a "hard" limit of 800 yards. If a hunter wants to take shots on game beyond 800 yards then one must purchase the KILO2400abs and either the Kestrel or the Garmin. Then the hard limit is 5000 yards. Are we laughing yet? I seriously doubt that the BDX system was designed by hunters for hunting.

I found out that Applied Ballistics Solutions is the company that designed the ballistic engines in the Sig LRFs and they also designed the Sig BDX app for the phone. Their own ballistic app caters to the competitive precision shooters crowd. Now every ballistic app worth a hoot allows sensed data from either the Kestrel or the Weather flow devices and that includes the ABS app. Apparently, ABS turned off the kestrel and the Weatherflow meters in Sig's BDX app. I would be happy just to get an idea of what the wind speed, wind direction is. Cross wind on the target would be good to know. Which lead me to investigate that little Weatherflow gadget. I bought one for the paltry sum of $85 bucks. Simple, bomb proof, it is waterproof and has an otter like soft rubber case. No menus or screens to navigate. Just push the on button, hold the unit into the wind and it starts dumping atmospheric data into your favorite ballistics app! I am looking at the Strelok Pro ballistics app and so far I like what I see. The app supports the building of yardage and windage holds on reticles from most brands and models of scopes. It is then just a matter of lasing the target, clicking the turrets or moving the scope to approximate the windage, elevation holds, send the round. The Strelok Pro app is a one time download fee of $15 so $100 will buy the entire solution. The Brits have figured it out so I have included a link to their club's video. Note that the Weatherflow they use is blue which is an earlier model before they came out with the desert tan field version:

 

[ZBB]

GWOT, hunting is just getting the trickle down. I think that video you liked would be a good training aid for wind and holding. But I can’t think of anything more impractical to use for hunting unless you were on a mega ranch with a ton of weather stations around. But at that point why even call it hunting.

 

[redwoood]

Supposedly, the KILO2400abs LRF will only pair with either the Kestrel 5700 elite or the Garmin 5701. That's another $600 or so to plop down on the system. I have the KILO1800 LRF which does not have the "engine" to pair with an external device which is fine by me. I will probably just get a cheap handheld wind meter that I will only use if there is a stiff cross wind.

The sig 2400abs pairs with your smart phone and comes with a wind meter that plugs into your smart phone.

So far it has been dead on but I've yet to travel to another elevation and test it shooting up or down slope.

 

[Gila]

I apologize for the typo. I meant the Kilo2400bdx LRF. The Weatherflow WeatherMeter that came with your kilo is the same one I bought on amazon. My beef with Sig is that they shut off the WeatherMeter interface to the BDX app. The sole reason they did that was to force a person to get a kilo2400bdx and either a Kestrel or a Garmin unit to make the BDX system function as the way they sold it. Without a way to input the enviro data with the other kilo bdx models, the windage and elevation holds sent to the Sierra3 scope are garbage. Because garbage in equals garbage out. The only difference in capability between the Strelok Pro Solution and the Kilo2400abs is that you need to manually input the range and angle into Strelok Pro.

There are some advantages to using Strelok Pro but I will just stay on topic with BDX. I think the Kilo LRF is a good value and I like mine. The Sierra3BDX is ok but nothing like the quality or function of the Leupold scope that it replaced. My tale of woe with the BDX system is the system data that is exchanged or maybe better said: The lack of it!

 

[Gila]

That lousy Sierra3 scope is SO GONE! A smile on my face the whole time I was removing it from the rifle!

After calling customer service about the data accuracy debacle and getting nowhere; I tried to just give it a go on manual. I sighted in at 100 yards with the bore laser or attempted to. There is not much range on the elevation turret. In fact if you want to dial in at longer ranges forget it. To return to zero on the turrets, one must remove the caps, loosen a tiny allen screw, then move the dial to zero, and retighten the allen screw. The allen screws are very small and will most likely shoot loose eventually. That small of a screw will probably strip out after being tightened several times anyway. The intensity knob and the parallax knob on the inside are very sharp and difficult to turn. To turn the intensity on or off the knob must travel to the end stop. My fingers were somewhat raw after doing that several times. Moving to the sight picture: On a sunny afternoon the hold over dots were hard to see on the highest intensity. The anti-cant feature is too sensitive at longer ranges and makes it virtually impossible to level. The result is rather large lights on the left and right of the sight picture flashing all of the time. The reticle is a standard duplex but it is very wide. The cross hairs (not) are so wide I couldn't even center on a prairie dog at 500 yards. The entire lower half of the sight picture has aberration lines all the way across which are as wide as the distance between the hold over dots. After looking through the scope for awhile my eyes hurt.

I tried to find something positive about the scope but I just couldn't. Even the logos don't look good! As far as I'm concerned the design is in the dumpster and the quality is not far behind. My intention was not to review the scope but rather to have some justification to keep it which I didn't find. I took a chance in buying it because it is quite new and there are not many out there to be reviewed. One disadvantage to living in the "outback" is 2-3 hours travel to get to a store to look at a scope. The stores don't carry very many models because they expect people to buy on-line. To end this on a positive note, I am learning about the new features to be had in quality riflescopes. That's all I have to say about that.....

 

[TXLonghorn]

Dang I hate to hear that. I was going to get one.
Now thanks for saving me the trouble.

 

[schmalts]

I am starting to feel like an idiot for buying the Sig Sierra3BDX scope. The BDX system is a pile of crap IMHO! The system is supposed to supply windage and elevation hold dots to the scope's reticle. The accuracy of the data is just "smoke and mirrors". The elevation hold is so, so and will only be ball park. The windage hold is totally bogus. The only way to get atmospheric data into the system is one by one hand entry into the BDX app on the cell phone. I told the customer service rep that you people are living in a dream if you think a hunter can use atmospheric data from the internet. Obviously, the only viable enviro data (like wind speed and direction) must be sensed where you are taking the shot. Sig touts the BDX system as having a "hard" limit of 800 yards. If a hunter wants to take shots on game beyond 800 yards then one must purchase the KILO2400abs and either the Kestrel or the Garmin. Then the hard limit is 5000 yards. Are we laughing yet? I seriously doubt that the BDX system was designed by hunters for hunting.

I found out that Applied Ballistics Solutions is the company that designed the ballistic engines in the Sig LRFs and they also designed the Sig BDX app for the phone. Their own ballistic app caters to the competitive precision shooters crowd. Now every ballistic app worth a hoot allows sensed data from either the Kestrel or the Weather flow devices and that includes the ABS app. Apparently, ABS turned off the kestrel and the Weatherflow meters in Sig's BDX app. I would be happy just to get an idea of what the wind speed, wind direction is. Cross wind on the target would be good to know. Which lead me to investigate that little Weatherflow gadget. I bought one for the paltry sum of $85 bucks. Simple, bomb proof, it is waterproof and has an otter like soft rubber case. No menus or screens to navigate. Just push the on button, hold the unit into the wind and it starts dumping atmospheric data into your favorite ballistics app! I am looking at the Strelok Pro ballistics app and so far I like what I see. The app supports the building of yardage and windage holds on reticles from most brands and models of scopes. It is then just a matter of lasing the target, clicking the turrets or moving the scope to approximate the windage, elevation holds, send the round. The Strelok Pro app is a one time download fee of $15 so $100 will buy the entire solution. The Brits have figured it out so I have included a link to their club's video. Note that the Weatherflow they use is blue which is an earlier model before they came out with the desert tan field version:

Sorry to hear. I guess turning dials is just more foolproof. I put a Mark5 on my new gun this year and slapped label maker cheat sheet on the stock of that new pretty gun and my biggest worry was losing the damn label.

 

[Gila]

Sorry to hear. I guess turning dials is just more foolproof. I put a Mark5 on my new gun this year and slapped label maker cheat sheet on the stock of that new pretty gun and my biggest worry was losing the damn label.

I think being able to dial-up is huge. Up until recently I was using an old VX2. Never lost zero and I never missed. 300 to 450 yds on pronghorn was no problem with the standard duplex. Didn't even consider a new scope. However my eyes aren't what they used to be and I don't see very well in low light these days. The illuminated MOA reticles aren't very busy and a pleasure to shoot. I build a rifle profile in the Sig ballistics program on the phone and blue tooth the profile over to the LRG. That gives me range and elevation MOA. For the wind I use Strelok pro on the phone and bluetooth over the atmospherics from a hunting model Weather Flow meter.

I will periodically check windage MOA after I am in the area so the windage is usually known before I get on an animal. If I am on a ambush point, I will lase objects at different ranges so it is more of a matter of holdover when the shot is made. This season a bull elk walked out from behind a pinion that I had previously lased at 213 yds and stood there broadside. You could hear a pin drop so windage wasn't an issue. it doesn't get any better than that and usually isn't. My long shots are usually on pronghorn after a doe busts me. Sometimes a buck will stop and face the danger and those shots can be way out there. Not much time for a shot in that situation though. If I am on a stalk and get the drop on a herd, I sometimes have the time to go prone and do the dial-up gig. Some of the predator dudes swear by a Horus reticle and don't bother with dial-up but some of those reticles are too busy for me.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

BDX system is just another marketing gimmick tricking people into thinking they can buy competency. In reality its just more things to go wrong.

 

[BigSky!]

I'm not debating or challenging anybody in this thread and their personal experiences. I think some people's expectations are skewed as to what the BDX system does or can do. I decided to start experimenting with the BDX system based on threads like this and based on my interest in technology. To me, it has been a fun experiment.

I've found no bad about the system with my example of two scopes and two rangefinders. Keep in mind, this is my personal experience. They are actually quite slick. As to glass quality, it is very good. I haven't stood the scope up next to any of my other top tier scopes to see how it compares; but, as best I can represent, is it exceptional in any way? No. It is very good, or, at worse, very acceptable. I have found nothing bad at all. I guess you can color me impressed. I was kind of dubious about the whole set-up; so, I thought I would check for myself. I am blown away at how accurate the calculations are. I am impressed with the ability to hold zero. I am impressed by the accuracy of the adjustments. I just haven't had one long enough to determine endurance or longevity.

I've also used it just doing adjustments via the dials and so far the adjustments have been very accurate. You can use it as intended with the BDX system, or as a BDC reticle or as a simple crosshair reticle and can even spin turrets. The only minor gripe I would have so far would be that when not using the BDX/lighted reticle, the crosshairs are thicker than I would prefer; however, it would still be acceptable. The thickness of the un-lit reticle would probably be a detriment beyond 300 yards. It's worth a roll of the dice in my opinion as I really like it.

As for the atmospheric data, I think people can have too high of expectations. My expectations for that data is to get local temp and local elevation and nothing more. You can go in to the app and set the wind velocity and direction. The horizontal part of the main reticle will place a lighted dot at the distance of the hold-off. This is then no different than using any other scope with horizontally placed indicators (hashes/dots/etc) for wind hold-off. Additionally, once you range the target, not only does the elevation dot move accordingly, so do the wind hold dots. I used it today in a 10MPH +/- full value wind and it worked perfectly at all ranges. You need to use it like you would any other "shooting in the wind" scenario. The wind speed is not automatically "x". For my example today. I had winds varying between 10 to 20 mph out of the west as I was shooting north. I had the input as 10 MPH full value wind. My lighted dot (just like any other scope) was static and I, the shooter, needed to adjust for actual wind at the time of the shot.

I think it will work quite effectively, during hunting season, to set a specific wind value and then use those "hold-offs" like you would with any other reticle type's marks where you adjust further or less based on your shooting practice/experience. You need to know your wind holds, read the wind and adjust from the dots like with any other scope.

I think some people are expecting magic that does not exist nor is even intended. In my opinion, the system is actually quite thorough, quite accurate and quite effective. Boiled down to its most simplistic, once you have entered your weapon and load data, the system allows you to range the target and instantly puts the ballistic data into the scope with the hold point. That it does very well. This is just my take from having experimented with it this year and my attempt to clarify anything that may just be speculation. Be well all.

 

[D_Walt]

I bought a Sierra3 BDX on sale last year and put it on on my daughters 243 and have been very happy with it so far, the drops have been spot on out to 500 yards (which is much further than I would use a 243 on unwounded game). You really need to chrono your load to get accurate data - and then shoot it to verify drops as published bullet BC’s don’t always pan out. Mine is been very repeatable so far and the glass is decent. I think it is a great system for 500 yards and in, (maybe further with a bigger rifle) if you want to go farther get a Kestrel with Applied Ballistics and dial.