Shoulder seasons for sale

[katqanna]

Well, here is an ad for shoulder seasons for sale in the Gazette and a lot of other papers in MT. It's in the Chronicle, the Helena IR, Missoulian, Flathead Beacon, Hungry Horse Beacon, Daily Interlake, BigFork Eagle.

In 2013, the same phone number ran an ad for bull elk in the Missoulian

NEED Private Land Elk & Deer Hunt. Lots of bull elk, near Drummond, 3 days, $750, 5 days $1000, includes cabin lodging. 406-360-7361

.

 

[BuzzH]

I wonder if Eric Albus will be along to say its a fake newspaper add?

Business as usual in Montana.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Thanks Kat.

I've heard the Commissioners say that if anyone say this happening, to please contact them. You can do so at:

[email protected]

I've sent my note to them already, making sure they have seen this so they can take it in to consideration when they set the next season.

 

[katqanna]

Ben, I emailed them with this just after I posted, with all the links. I saved the ad pages in html, so in case the ads come down or expire, I still have them, plus saved the google search showing all those ads. Took a screen shot of the Chronicle as well, before I realized there were so many papers this had been advertised in.

Forgot to add the Gazette link, edited that for the link in the first post, so no one can accuse the ad of being fake. While I do have the digital graphic skills to compile a fake ad, no way in hail I would do such a thing.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Ben, I emailed them with this just after I posted, with all the links. I saved the ad pages in html, so in case the ads come down or expire, I still have them, plus saved the google search showing all those ads. Took a screen shot of the Chronicle as well, before I realized there were so many papers this had been advertised in.

Awesome.

I've sent my comments to them as well as the Gov's office. This is unacceptable.

 

[Rat Fink]

This pisses me off to no end and is exactly what I told the FWP Commission would start happening in my comments last fall. I hope they eliminate all shoulder seasons because of this and go back to the roster hunts.

 

[bigdonniebrasco]

for the uneducated, what exactly is this?

Thanks

 

[MT_elk]

This is ridiculous! I knew from the start that these shoulder seasons were not a good idea. I sure hope they stop this nonsense and go back to the damage/roster hunts.

 

[BuzzH]

The commission wont do a single thing about this...remember, you heard it hear first.

What can they do? Bullock is a huge fan of the shoulder seasons and the commission will not rock that boat. Kujala, Thompson, Vore, and the rest of the misfit "biologists" receiving their MTFWP pay checks support them too. The FWP Director allowed this to happen as well.

Doesn't matter at all that shoulder season hunts are being sold, to any of them...they all knew this would happen and if they claim any different they're liars. Remember, the only good elk is a dead elk.

Only way this is going to be made better is a house cleaning from the Governors office down to the field biologist level (along with a revision to the EMP).

 

[onpoint]

I wonder if Eric Albus will be along to say its a fake newspaper add?

Business as usual in Montana.

Hey Buzz....

I put this out there in all sincerity -

I moved here about 32 years ago and have spent just about all of that time trying to make it a better place for the kind of folks in Montana that frequent this site. I sacrificed the opportunity to make a better living doing something else somewhere else because it is what I chose to do. Been largely a thankless and very frustrating task, but there have been rewards.
I way more often than not agree with the way of thinking you exhibit on here.
That being said, IIRC, you are a Montanan who moved away. You spend a lot of time bitching about the way things are here.
Again, I agree with the vast majority of what you say....

This home state could use more like you with the insights and experience you bring to the table.

Too bad you chose to leave and now cast aspersions from afar. They'd be much more useful if they came from within......
Wish you weren't watching your home come unglued from across the border.........

Again, I appreciate your input on here (way more than you really could know) - just sayin...................

By the way, your first sentence beat me to the punch...............

 

[u1299]

The commission wont do a single thing about this...remember, you heard it hear first.

What can they do? Bullock is a huge fan of the shoulder seasons and the commission will not rock that boat. Kujala, Thompson, Vore, and the rest of the misfit "biologists" receiving their MTFWP pay checks support them too. The FWP Director allowed this to happen as well.

Doesn't matter at all that shoulder season hunts are being sold, to any of them...they all knew this would happen and if they claim any different they're liars. Remember, the only good elk is a dead elk.

Only way this is going to be made better is a house cleaning from the Governors office down to the field biologist level (along with a revision to the EMP).

Suggesting Gianforte is a better solution? I hope that's not what you're suggesting.

 

[u1299]

Don't pay and this isn't a problem. I'll sell all my guns and hunting equipment before I'll pay a nickel (ever) to hunt and or fish, period.......

 

[El Jason]

Only way this is going to be made better is a house cleaning from the Governors office down to the field biologist level (along with a revision to the EMP).

More importantly would be repealing Debbie Barrett's legislation that made the EMP "objectives" a statutory mandate.

Pretty disgusting that folks would sell shoulder season hunts. Never miss an opportunity to make a buck.

 

[Ben Lamb]

The commission wont do a single thing about this...remember, you heard it hear first.

What can they do? Bullock is a huge fan of the shoulder seasons and the commission will not rock that boat. Kujala, Thompson, Vore, and the rest of the misfit "biologists" receiving their MTFWP pay checks support them too. The FWP Director allowed this to happen as well.

Doesn't matter at all that shoulder season hunts are being sold, to any of them...they all knew this would happen and if they claim any different they're liars. Remember, the only good elk is a dead elk.

Only way this is going to be made better is a house cleaning from the Governors office down to the field biologist level (along with a revision to the EMP).

It is funny to see stuff like this after Bullock has done exactly what sportsmen asked him to do: Give the agency back to the agency. Shoulder Seasons weren't a Bullock push, they were an FWP push. Bullock said "Do something about the elk situation and improve sportsmen-landowner relations." This is what the agency came up with, right or wrong. Now that it's something sportsmen don't like, we expect the Gov's office to come rushing in and force our political will over the agency.

GIanforte said he can't understand why people would have an issue shooting an elk in late February, and if he was Gov, he'd have signed the silly shoulder season bill. So there's no love for wild elk there. He's also said we don't give landowners enough and that FWP is at war with them. Think he'd be better than Bullock?

EMP is up for revision starting next year. Bullock made that a priority for the agency, and said so in Randy's Podcast.

JLS is right - want to free up the hands of our wildlife managers? Get rid of the At or Below objective line. That causes a lot of consternation with the lawyers who are sure they'll get sued over not being at objective in some areas.

Regardless, this is evidence that at least this ranch shouldn't be receiving any help from the state since the Elk are clearly not a nuisance and are viewed simply as a revenue stream . Kick 'em out of the program entirely.

 

[BuzzH]

Hey Buzz....

I put this out there in all sincerity -

I moved here about 32 years ago and have spent just about all of that time trying to make it a better place for the kind of folks in Montana that frequent this site. I sacrificed the opportunity to make a better living doing something else somewhere else because it is what I chose to do. Been largely a thankless and very frustrating task, but there have been rewards.
I way more often than not agree with the way of thinking you exhibit on here.
That being said, IIRC, you are a Montanan who moved away. You spend a lot of time bitching about the way things are here.
Again, I agree with the vast majority of what you say....

This home state could use more like you with the insights and experience you bring to the table.

Too bad you chose to leave and now cast aspersions from afar. They'd be much more useful if they came from within......
Wish you weren't watching your home come unglued from across the border.........

Again, I appreciate your input on here (way more than you really could know) - just sayin...................

By the way, your first sentence beat me to the punch...............

onpoint,

I have held elk tags in Montana every year since 1980 (until this year)...more years than you've lived in Montana.

As hard as you've tried to make it better, is about equally as hard as I tried to keep what we already had, and have since lost.

Elk management in Montana is a joke...from the EMP to the elk population estimates, to the harvest data, to the bull to cow ratios, etc. Take a look, AT THEIR NUMBERS and tell me how any of it makes sense? I'm not a biologist or a statistician, but even I know what it looks like to "cook the books".

I have been active in these issues for a long, long, long time in Montana, so given that I haven't sat on the sidelines, and still don't, I reckon I've earned the right to "bitch" if I want.

Take just this shoulder season crap. A majority of comments were opposed. What did the FWP do? They wrote a reply, posted it on their webpage, and essentially told everyone that wasn't in favor of a shoulder season we were "full of shit" and "didn't know what we were talking about". Its about the most biased, one-sided, belittling piece of government BS hatchet jobs I've ever seen written...people should lose their jobs over that kind of response.

In that response, many questioned the issue of this topic...Oh, no, that wont happen, nobody will charge for a shoulder season hunt...yeah, right.

So, what am I left to do as a concerned Sportsmen in Montana? My voice is squashed, biologists wont listen, you point out the "facts" they don't like that. The Governor and Director wont stand up to the Ag interests. The Director wont stand up to the Thompson, Vore, and Kujala's of the world...they in turn wont stand up for hunters OR wildlife. They also wont support their own biologists. IF a biologist dare support a hunter or wildlife, they're sent down the road like Ray V. was. Toe the mark or else...that's your job, not biology.

Maybe you just haven't seen what I've seen...good biology, science, and good people crapped on by the Department, Legislature, and Governors office...over and over and over again. All at the expense of Montana's wildlife, which 100% is what matters most to me.

It seems odd to me, that for whatever reason, I just don't believe that most of these "masterminds" behind things like shoulder seasons, every lose a second of sleep over these issues...yet I do.

Aint I just the dumbass...I should just blast my cow in August and continue to trust the Department is looking out for my wildlife and "doing what's best"...

Its a real inconvenience having a conscience and knowing better.

 

[BuzzH]

It is funny to see stuff like this after Bullock has done exactly what sportsmen asked him to do: .

Ben, just an observation/question, did Sportsmen ask Bullock to take a ride in Galts helicopter and invite the media along to justify the shoulder seasons?

Strange way of staying out of Agency business...

Oh, and its not that we all of sudden just came to the realization that, "now we don't like shoulder seasons". The Department was told, and as per usual, failed to listen and mitigate the issues.

This is NOT on hunters, this is 100% on MTFWP and their continuing failed policy.

 

[onpoint]

"Its a real inconvenience having a conscience and knowing better".

Just hope you don't think and believe you're the only one on here possessing these things.
Oh and by the way, I've seen (and lived) plenty of what you've seen......
Glad you've held more elk tags than the number of years I've lived here but don't see how it matters. unless we're reduced to measuring anatomies.
Think you missed my point - too bad you didn't stick around here to put your considerable knowledge and commitment to better use.
Again, still appreciate what you say on here.....I possess a fairly thick outer layer.

 

[BuzzH]

"Its a real inconvenience having a conscience and knowing better".

Just hope you don't think and believe you're the only one on here possessing these things.
Oh and by the way, I've seen (and lived) plenty of what you've seen......
Glad you've held more elk tags than the number of years I've lived here but don't see how it matters. unless we're reduced to measuring anatomies.
Think you missed my point - too bad you didn't stick around here to put your considerable knowledge and commitment to better use.
Again, still appreciate what you say on here.....I possess a fairly thick outer layer.

Nope, I didn't miss your point and appreciate your views...and I wasn't trying to make that a measuring contest on the permit issue. Only the point that after holding an elk license for that many continuous years, I'm never going to buy one again (and didn't this year) unless some drastic measures are taken in regard to elk management in Montana. I wont support the crap that is going on there, financially or otherwise.

I'll keep on doing what I can from afar...I'm a life member of a local group in the 'root that does some good work.

I would expect you'll keep up the fight as well, good luck.

 

[onpoint]

Nope, I didn't miss your point and appreciate your views...and I wasn't trying to make that a measuring contest on the permit issue. Only the point that after holding an elk license for that many continuous years, I'm never going to buy one again (and didn't this year) unless some drastic measures are taken in regard to elk management in Montana. I wont support the crap that is going on there, financially or otherwise.

I'll keep on doing what I can from afar...I'm a life member of a local group in the 'root that does some good work.

I would expect you'll keep up the fight as well, good luck.

We'll need all that and more.
Seems to me some years ago you stated you also owned a .41, we most likely have way more in common than not..............

 

[Ben Lamb]

Ben, just an observation/question, did Sportsmen ask Bullock to take a ride in Galts helicopter and invite the media along to justify the shoulder seasons?

Strange way of staying out of Agency business...

Oh, and its not that we all of sudden just came to the realization that, "now we don't like shoulder seasons". The Department was told, and as per usual, failed to listen and mitigate the issues.

This is NOT on hunters, this is 100% on MTFWP and their continuing failed policy.

Buzz,

The Helicopter stunt was a bad idea. Not sure who told him it was solid. I can see why he did it though: Democratic Governor who is up for re-election trying to show people he's listening to all sides. With a different person in the chopper seat, I could see it being a better photo-op. I certainly let the office know that.

A lot of us worked on the shoulder seasons as well, and we were able to cut off almost 50% of what they proposed through strongly worded public comment. I'm still against the shoulder seasons as they are currently structured and will continue to work on the Commission to see this dialed back to an appropriate level.

I'm also still advocating that the EMP be revised, but honestly, if it's not Bullock in the Gov's seat, we'd more than likely end up with a circus that would promote Ranching for Wildlife or something along those lines.