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Remington Ultimate Muzzleloader Performance Questions

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Mako3382

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I'm a muzzleloader newbie, having taken only 1 animal with a muzzleloader prior to drawing a unit 13 New mexico bull elk tag for this late season. I purchased a Remington ultimate muzzle loader and have been working on load development, but wanted to check with the more experienced muzzleloader guys. Some of the sabot manufacturers advertise 2400 fps with 200gr of 777 pellets and a 250 gr sabot. I've been averaging around 2100 fps with 200 gr pellets and 250 gr sabots, and 2302 fps with 180 gr pellets and 250 gr sabots. The gun definitely does not like the Shockwave sabots, but seems to like the Barnes. Any tricks to achieve greater velocity? Any recommendation on sabot preference for elk? Any reason to use a 300gr sabot in lieu of a 250?

I was also shocked by the amount of wind drift I'm seeing at 300 yards with only a 12-15 mph cross wind.

Thank you for any info!
 
I’ll actually be in unit 13 helping my niece on the late Muzzleloader hunt, she will be using my Remington Ultimate muzzleloader. No elk alive will notice the difference between 2300 FPS and 2400 FPS at the muzzle. Either way, you’ll be dialing or holding over 6-8 MOA at 300 yards, or 20”-28” (with a 100 yard zero).

I can get 2400 FPS out of mine with a “significant quantity” of BH209, but I have an upgraded breech plug and ignition system from Arrowhead rifles; the factory ignition system is prone to gas cutting with heavy loads of bh209. Recoil with that load is ferocious.

For my niece I’ll be loading a 300 grain bullets from Arrowhead with 85 grains by weight (approximately 120 by volume) of BH209, going to chrono tomorrow but I’m expecting 2000-2100 FPS out of that load. I would feel comfortable with that load out to 250 yards, it will still be carrying 1600 ft lbs of energy, dropping 20” and in a 10 MPH cross wind will drift about 10”.

Hopefully we get within 100 yards and just put it behind the shoulder and shoot.

Good luck on your hunt!
 
Loose powder usually gives a little more velocity, but unless you grow a longer barrel you won't gain much over what you're getting at 2300. Thats really fast for a muzz BTW. You can try some different sabot cups of varying diameter, polish the bore, ceramic treatment, etc. I'd be very surprised if you are even burning 200gr of powder. Shoot over a tarp and see how much is unburnt flying out the barrel. Once you get over about 140-50gr its not burning before it exits the barrel and you're just wasting powder for little to no gain in velocity. Not surprised you got higher velocity with a lower charge, one of those 50gr pellets probably just flew out the barrel before being burned.

Substantial wind drift with a light for caliber bullet is expected. Bigger heavier bullets drift way less (and have a higher BC).

Don't over think it. You really don't gain anything by shooting fast bullets. They kill by making big ass holes. Also when shooting fast bullets with low BC you really don't gain much at long range anyway if that's what you're hoping to improve. You give up a lot of energy for a slightly flatter trajectory, which you still have to adjust for. I shoot either 460 or 490gr full bore bullets with 100-110gr of powder in the 1400fps range and it kills stuff really dead. My buddy borrowed mine and killed a 350 class bull at 250 yards. The bull fell so hard he broke a front front brow tine off. I shot a caribou with mine a few years back, and he nose dived so hard he snapped his skull across the eye socket, I skull capped him with a knife. One of the craziests thing I've ever seen.
 
Bambistew said:
Loose powder usually gives a little more velocity, but unless you grow a longer barrel you won't gain much over what you're getting at 2300. Thats really fast for a muzz BTW. You can try some different sabot cups of varying diameter, polish the bore, ceramic treatment, etc. I'd be very surprised if you are even burning 200gr of powder. Shoot over a tarp and see how much is unburnt flying out the barrel. Once you get over about 140-50gr its not burning before it exits the barrel and you're just wasting powder for little to no gain in velocity. Not surprised you got higher velocity with a lower charge, one of those 50gr pellets probably just flew out the barrel before being burned.

Substantial wind drift with a light for caliber bullet is expected. Bigger heavier bullets drift way less (and have a higher BC).

Don't over think it. You really don't gain anything by shooting fast bullets. They kill by making big ass holes. Also when shooting fast bullets with low BC you really don't gain much at long range anyway if that's what you're hoping to improve. You give up a lot of energy for a slightly flatter trajectory, which you still have to adjust for. I shoot either 460 or 490gr full bore bullets with 100-110gr of powder in the 1400fps range and it kills stuff really dead. My buddy borrowed mine and killed a 350 class bull at 250 yards. The bull fell so hard he broke a front front brow tine off. I shot a caribou with mine a few years back, and he nose dived so hard he snapped his skull across the eye socket, I skull capped him with a knife. One of the craziests thing I've ever seen.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info
 
D_Walt said:
I’ll actually be in unit 13 helping my niece on the late Muzzleloader hunt, she will be using my Remington Ultimate muzzleloader. No elk alive will notice the difference between 2300 FPS and 2400 FPS at the muzzle. Either way, you’ll be dialing or holding over 6-8 MOA at 300 yards, or 20”-28” (with a 100 yard zero).

I can get 2400 FPS out of mine with a “significant quantity” of BH209, but I have an upgraded breech plug and ignition system from Arrowhead rifles; the factory ignition system is prone to gas cutting with heavy loads of bh209. Recoil with that load is ferocious.

For my niece I’ll be loading a 300 grain bullets from Arrowhead with 85 grains by weight (approximately 120 by volume) of BH209, going to chrono tomorrow but I’m expecting 2000-2100 FPS out of that load. I would feel comfortable with that load out to 250 yards, it will still be carrying 1600 ft lbs of energy, dropping 20” and in a 10 MPH cross wind will drift about 10”.

Hopefully we get within 100 yards and just put it behind the shoulder and shoot.

Good luck on your hunt!
Click to expand...
Thanks for the feedback. Good luck!
 
Does NM require Black Powder or substitute? Now that we got the "primitive" thing out of the way, why not go smokeless?
 
Mako3382 said:
I'm a muzzleloader newbie, having taken only 1 animal with a muzzleloader prior to drawing a unit 13 New mexico bull elk tag for this late season. I purchased a Remington ultimate muzzle loader and have been working on load development, but wanted to check with the more experienced muzzleloader guys. Some of the sabot manufacturers advertise 2400 fps with 200gr of 777 pellets and a 250 gr sabot. I've been averaging around 2100 fps with 200 gr pellets and 250 gr sabots, and 2302 fps with 180 gr pellets and 250 gr sabots. The gun definitely does not like the Shockwave sabots, but seems to like the Barnes. Any tricks to achieve greater velocity? Any recommendation on sabot preference for elk? Any reason to use a 300gr sabot in lieu of a 250?

I was also shocked by the amount of wind drift I'm seeing at 300 yards with only a 12-15 mph cross wind.

Thank you for any info!
Click to expand...
Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.
 
I was just in New Mexico for a muzzleloader elk hunt. We went to the range just to make sure everything was still on post flight. I watched a guy hit steel at 500 yards, three times in a row with a “muzzleloader“. Make no mistake…modern muzzleloader‘s have turned this season into a rifle hunt.
 
mdhunter said:
I was just in New Mexico for a muzzleloader elk hunt. We went to the range just to make sure everything was still on post flight. I watched a guy hit steel at 500 yards, three times in a row with a “muzzleloader“. Make no mistake…modern muzzleloader‘s have turned this season into a rifle hunt.
Click to expand...
Well put. The intent of the season, originally, was to allow the use of traditional black powder firearms in a special season. Modern "muzzleloaders" violate the spirit of the ML season. But, it is legal, so more power to ya.
 
I'm pretty much with Cush on this one,but it is NM he was talking about.

It's also called a Muzzleloader Season,not primitive weapons.They are different.
13 has primitive weapon name but it's bow & MZ. Sabots,scopes and BH209 allowed.

I've hunted 13 with my TC Omega scoped w/BH and 250gr barnes sabots. 200 yards is what I hit & zeroed for but it is not the same as a rifle hunt to me. It's a get within 100 hunt to me. My MZ hunting.

I have heard the stories & tales of 400+ yard doings. I'll stay miles away from them.
 
I don't want to wade too far into the fray on the "primitive" debate. Although, not sure anyone who shoots a compound can say much about ML tech. When I setup my CO ML, I juiced as much velocity and energy that I could because although my eyes couldn't shoot past 125 yards, elk are big and I wanted to hit as hard as possible.

Now regarding velocity, I have always had more luck with both velocity (and energy) and consistency (therefore accuracy) with properly weighed BH209 than with any pellet. Recommend a digital scale and a bottle of BH209 and report back!
 
shannerdrake said:
I don't want to wade too far into the fray on the "primitive" debate. Although, not sure anyone who shoots a compound can say much about ML tech. When I setup my CO ML, I juiced as much velocity and energy that I could because although my eyes couldn't shoot past 125 yards, elk are big and I wanted to hit as hard as possible.

Now regarding velocity, I have always had more luck with both velocity (and energy) and consistency (therefore accuracy) with properly weighed BH209 than with any pellet. Recommend a digital scale and a bottle of BH209 and report back!
Click to expand...
Having a scale is key to building up an accurate load. I shoot blackhorn 209 out of my TC Impact and I found 78 grains by weight is best for the Barnes bullets I shoot. I’ve only shot out to 100 but would like to start practicing out to 200 yards. That would probly be my limit on distance with my gun
 
I agree on BH209 and the special made ignition kit for BH209. Clean up is simple and accuracy is way improved.
 
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