Pre-Pre Planning for DIY Moose

[Hawk4974]

I've read on some threads guys that just fly to Anchorage and drive to hunting areas but I think I really like the sound of a ridge top hunt. I've watched so many hunting videos on moose that that seems to be right up me and my dad's alley. He's about 65 so I know I'd be doing the bulk of the work. I might bring a cousin or two along to help though.

I've read that 40 Mile, Papa Bear, Golden Eagle, and Northern Trophy air are all good outfitters for a DIY.

Do ridge top hunts tend to be less expensive since you don't need a boat?

Do you have any recommendations for areas? It almost sounds as though you can go pretty much anywhere.

Are draw areas better than OTC? If you do draw, is it pretty easy to set everything up ahead of time?

Any tips you may have or people I can message on here would be great. Sorry for all of the questions. I've read a couple of the books (Hunt Alaska on Dollars a Day & Hunting in Alaska) and I have so much information in my head I need help narrowing it down. I need to start forming a punch list of things to do and when to do them.

BTW, how do you add a photo to the side of your name? I spent 20 minutes trying to figure it out!

 

[Kaitum]

Generally speaking, small bush plane transportation is the most expensive aspect of any Alaska hunt (that involves flying). There are hunts that involve hiring a transporter to drop you off via boat but generally I don't think of those as being more expensive than flying in. Ridge tops hunts vs. landing on a gravel bar vs. landing on a lake don't influence the cost as much as flight time. The farther you fly, the higher the costs. Some air taxis charge by the hour, others charge a fixed price to a general area.

Draw areas aren't any better than OTC areas, unless your OTC area is 100 yards off the Denali Hwy. The Koyukuk area is mostly a drawing area for non-residents and it is a good drawing area, but it usually involves a long boat ride making it one of the more challenging areas to access. Like other hunts, the key to finding a good area is going where others aren't willing or able to go. It is also nice to work with an air taxi that won't put other clients on top of you once you're in an area. I think that is 40 Mile's general policy. But that doesn't mean someone else won't be there or come in behind you. For ridge top hunts where 40 Mile Air is flying you in via Super Cub, you'll be limited to 50 lbs total in your pack (that includes food) per person. That's doable for a sheep hunt, not quite as easy for a moose camp. So you may need to pay for an extra flight or two for additional gear. Something to keep in mind as you work on logistics / costs.

Good luck.

Jeff

 

[Hawk4974]

Thanks Jeff. I guess my main hiccup is based on trust. If I contact a drop guide and they promise to get me in a good spot and not drop others on top of us, etc. and then I pay all this $$ and the opposite happens I really have no recourse.

I guess that's why, when you get on sites like this, when people consistently recommend the same guides, it spreads like wildfire. I have a cousin in Juneau the was a fly fishing guide for years but he doesn't know any moose guides since he's panhandle. If I needed a salmon, blacktail, or black bear guide I'd just go see him.

 

[Kaitum]

I've used 4 different air taxis in the past five years and never had one put another group on top of me after dropping me in the field. I think for the most part air taxis won't do that. However, it is public land and just like anywhere else its open to all to hunt. Most of the established air taxis in a given area work with each other to help reduce crowding in any given area but there are always exceptions. And there are lots of private folks up here with planes as well. But honestly, I wouldn't let that deter you. Pick an area, work with an air taxi, and go have fun.

 

[Bambistew]

It'd be rare for a taxi to drop another group on top of a group they put in for moose or caribou, but it happens. Sheep is a different story, as some tend to drop others off days later in big country. Just because you got dropped off in a spot doesn't mean its "your" spot. Its public land, lots of locals have planes, and many could give a rats azz if a group is in the same spot.

Some good reading on the subject.
http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=hunting.transporters

No way to know if another taxi would drop guys off in the same spot or not. What are they supposed to do? Find you another spot, without hunters, or fly around looking for a spot? That costs money, and a lot of hunters get butt hurt over that, and tell the pilot to land them where they orignally where going... then bad mouth the pilot saying they dropped them in a crowded spot... When in reality they where likekly offered another option but didn't want to pay for it. They don't have a crystal ball... Most of them don't talk to each other to find out where they have hunters... Frankly they are just offering you a ride and not offering you a "hunt." If you want the later I suggest an outfitter based hunt.

Everyone is looking for a "good place" to go. Research it on your own, plenty of options, the state is huge with lots of excellent opportunity. Sounds like you're on the right track, read everything you can, and don't be discouraged. Call a few transporters and talk with them. I'd wait a couple months before doing so, let the dust settle from the season. There is no guaranteed hunt anywhere in this state, plan out the best you can and go for it, and be prepared for disappointment. Could be from weather, other hunters, winter kill, etc.

A bit of advice... the more expensive the trip, the fewer people you'll probably see. Go to a popular place with lots of game and you'll have company just like any state. Alaska is no different in that respect.

Draw tags are really not worth the effort, IMO. I apply for them because we can get "any bull" tags. I can't really think of any moose tags where a draw tag gives you much of an advantage of any sort over a good OTC area. Maybe a cheaper hunt, but by no means a better chance at killing a giant bull. As a NR I see zero advantage.

Look into the regs before applying... The fabled Koyukuk tags can be had by residents OTC (registration), but we have to cut the top of the palm off an antler. The only thing the draw tag gets you is an intact rack...

If I was looking for a moose hunt I'd look at these areas, in no particular order. Really no secret here, these are the "best" and most popular places to go for moose. Any of them will give you all the moose hunt you want, and none of them are better than the other. These areas cover an area about the size of Wyoming...

Kotzebue
Dillingham/King Salmon/Bethel
Fairbanks
Tok
McGrath

Good luck with your planning.

 

[Hawk4974]

I've used 4 different air taxis in the past five years and never had one put another group on top of me after dropping me in the field. I think for the most part air taxis won't do that. However, it is public land and just like anywhere else its open to all to hunt. Most of the established air taxis in a given area work with each other to help reduce crowding in any given area but there are always exceptions. And there are lots of private folks up here with planes as well. But honestly, I wouldn't let that deter you. Pick an area, work with an air taxi, and go have fun.

Honestly seeing a guy or two every now and then wouldn't bother me too much. I just wouldn't want some guys camped right next to me trying to call and hunt the same area we are.

 

[Hawk4974]

If I was looking for a moose hunt I'd look at these areas, in no particular order. Really no secret here, these are the "best" and most popular places to go for moose. Any of them will give you all the moose hunt you want, and none of them are better than the other. These areas cover an area about the size of Wyoming...

Kotzebue
Dillingham/King Salmon/Bethel
Fairbanks
Tok
McGrath

Good luck with your planning.

Wow, lots of good info! I see what you're saying about other hunters being around and the pilots only knowing so many areas to land. They'd need to have a complete computer software package in order to know where other hunters were dropped off. I have seen videos where hunters were moved mid hunt because of the lack of game but I'm sure they either paid in advance or paid afterward for it.

I will definitely look into these areas! If I find an area that looks good, will any of these taxis take me to the spot I like or do they have certain landing zones they only fly? Kind of a dumb question but you never know.

 

[Hawk4974]

Look into the regs before applying... The fabled Koyukuk tags can be had by residents OTC (registration), but we have to cut the top of the palm off an antler. The only thing the draw tag gets you is an intact rack...

Do they do that to monitor some type of disease? That's interesting....

 

[Kaitum]

I will definitely look into these areas! If I find an area that looks good, will any of these taxis take me to the spot I like or do they have certain landing zones they only fly? Kind of a dumb question but you never know.

Your best bet is to find a general area / drainage you'd like to hunt and then talk to the air taxi. They'll tell you where they can put you in that drainage. It really depends on what aircraft they fly and how the aircraft is equipped (wheels vs. floats). Some air taxis fly Super Cubs and can put you into more locations than the air taxis who fly a Beaver. Some areas may have tons of lakes around but the air taxi only operates wheeled planes.

There is lots of land out there, but sometimes there aren't many areas to land.

 

[Bambistew]

If I find an area that looks good, will any of these taxis take me to the spot I like or do they have certain landing zones they only fly? Kind of a dumb question but you never know.

Not sure what you mean. Taxi's have a "home base," and fly in a radius (basically) form there. Depending on the aircraft, you're looking at about a 2 hour trip one way max or around 150miles.

You pay for flight time, not your flight time by flight time to and from "home base". Meaning if you pick a lake 2 hours from home, you pay for 4 hours flight time in and 4 hours flight time out. At $400-900 an hour it can get expensive, and those flat rate trips seem a bit more reasonable.

Some taxis charge by the plane load, some charge by the person. Some aircraft can haul more than one person.

You can't just land anywhere. There are HUGE swaths of the stat that will never have a plane in them. Too far to walk from established strips, too swampy, hilly, etc, etc. Not to say that ATVs, boats, or other means of transportation won't be in those areas though. Most air taxis have established their own strips, or use ones that were built a long time ago by other air transporters, miners, oil exploration or locals. Usually taxis won't land on strips established/operated by guides or other operating air taxis... usually.

Some taxis use lakes and rivers to land, while this opens up areas to hunt besides ridges and gravel bars, you have to remember everyone else with floats can land there as well. Weather plays a big role in flying, especially wind. Those short take-off and land areas may only work with certain winds... read ridge-top landing. You could end up stuck for a while, or paying more for extra loads to be flown out due to reduced payload at take off.

Also keep in mind that while an air taxi is dropping you off and picking you up, he's probably taking care of a half dozen or more other groups. When weather delays happen, everyone gets backed up. Its not uncommon to be stuck for a few extra days. He's not your babysitter, anymore than a yellow cabbie is once he drops you off at the local bar...

Some transporters offer moving if game is scarce. Most will charge you for the move or its included in the upfront cost. This is big country, animals can move a long ways in a few days, they don't intentionally set you in areas void of game, they know the area, know where people have done well, and understand that not everyone is going to fill their tag. its hunting, nothing is guaranteed... You may have to walk a bit to find and kill game. Seems like lots of hunters expect to be run over with animals when they fly in. I think of the 6 moose I've packed/shot on fly out trips. The closest to the strip was over a mile, longest was nearly 3, and I'd go farther with the right partner and terrain...

Seems like a daunting experience. Pick an area, and then chose a transporter and talk to them. They'll find you a spot to go, the rest is up to you.

 

[Bambistew]

Do they do that to monitor some type of disease? That's interesting....

Cutting the antler "destroys" the trophy value of the rack. The thought is that it disuades hunters from going after big bulls just for the antlers, and may reduce hunting pressure. I don't think it does either...

Funny story... I passed two trucks/boats last Sunday, one had 3 racks the other had 2... all had the top palm cut off. All were nice moose too. The only trophy value it degrades is for the book. The antler could be fixed by a good taxidermist.

 

[brownbear932008]

Cutting the antler "destroys" the trophy value of the rack. The thought is that it disuades hunters from going after big bulls just for the antlers, and may reduce hunting pressure. I don't think it does either...

Funny story... I passed two trucks/boats last Sunday, one had 3 racks the other had 2... all had the top palm cut off. All were nice moose too. The only trophy value it degrades is for the book. The antler could be fixed by a good taxidermist.

I agree with this Bambistew when I was up there two years ago with the draw tag I saw tons of big moose having the palms cut off. That is not working on that river at all think that hunt is heading downhill fast after what I saw IMO.

I think there are way to many moose being taken up in there. Still a good hunt camp below us took a monster 70" bull but I don't see how it can withstand the pressure its getting from natives and resident hunter numbers

 

[Hawk4974]

From watching videos and shows, it seems that walking a mile or so is the norm. I saw a great video of a drop hunt where the hunters sat on a ridge and called two different moose in and they were able to watch it walk across the tundra from a loooooong way off. Pretty neat. I'm definitely not scared to walk, scope, and haul. The only thing I dread is the wet and bird-squitos I've seen. I love the cold but I HATE being wet. That's why I want to do a ridge hunt.

 

[mixedbag]

Hawk, that's some funny stuff right there.You ever walk in tundra grass??If you go more then a mile I'd be surprised.Remember,you have to bring that meat back threw that stuff twisting your ankles with every step and soaking wet feet.Also, if you don't like being wet then Alaska is definitely NOT for you!!!!I've been there for 20 days in past 2 years and it rained 2/3rds of that time.On my drop hunt with 40 mileair, all my hunting clothes and both sets of boots were soaked by day 2.Never cleared up enough to let sun dry them out.So it was hunt in wet clothes or sit in tent.We did sit in tent for 3 days because of heavy rain/fog.Its just how it is up there.And, I can't wait to do it all again.I'm going for moose next season,one way or another, with 40 mile.As recommended, pay for the extra gear flight which is around $700.Then you can have a nice camp and not limited to 50lbs,big big difference.You won't see any other hunters with 40 mile except going in and coming out.Also, expect grizzlies in your camp.A bear fence will allow you to sleep better at night.To be honest, I would never do this trip at 65 yrs old like your pops.I'm 45 and think I havemaybe 5 years left to do these type trips.But, he may be in great shape,I don't know.Just don't expect a moose hunt to be all that easy

 

[muledeerjunkie]

Hawk,

I've used Papa Bear Adventures (Bethel, AK) before and would highly recommend them, especially for a once in a life time hunt with your father. They have A LOT of repeat customers (myself included), which is an indication that people are having good experiences or they wouldn't be going back! Nearly all of your questions can be answered by reviewing their website.

Let's face it, your talking about hunting in Alaska during mid-late September...you need to accept the fact that you'll get wet (from all the rain if nothing else). You and your hunt partners need to purchase some high end rain gear/clothing if you don't already have it. Waiting out the rain in a tent is not an option. Leave any/all cotton fabrics at home (other than maybe underwear) and you'll be fine. I take light weight beathable chest waders with me and wear external wading boots for getting off/on the float plane, the chest waders double as great rain bottoms if you have a good rain jacket.

My avatar photo is from a Papa Bear hunt. Feel free to PM me if you want more specifics or details.

PS - I agree with what mixedbag has to say. I hunt the swamp, so my preferred meat portage distance is quarter mile from camp. I'll do half mile (or more) for a giant bull or if we're desparate for moose meat, but a mile is exceeding my comfort zone in swamp land.

 

[Hawk4974]

Hawk, that's some funny stuff right there.You ever walk in tundra grass??If you go more then a mile I'd be surprised.Remember,you have to bring that meat back threw that stuff twisting your ankles with every step and soaking wet feet.Also, if you don't like being wet then Alaska is definitely NOT for you!!!!I've been there for 20 days in past 2 years and it rained 2/3rds of that time.On my drop hunt with 40 mileair, all my hunting clothes and both sets of boots were soaked by day 2.Never cleared up enough to let sun dry them out.So it was hunt in wet clothes or sit in tent.We did sit in tent for 3 days because of heavy rain/fog.Its just how it is up there.And, I can't wait to do it all again.I'm going for moose next season,one way or another, with 40 mile.As recommended, pay for the extra gear flight which is around $700.Then you can have a nice camp and not limited to 50lbs,big big difference.You won't see any other hunters with 40 mile except going in and coming out.Also, expect grizzlies in your camp.A bear fence will allow you to sleep better at night.To be honest, I would never do this trip at 65 yrs old like your pops.I'm 45 and think I havemaybe 5 years left to do these type trips.But, he may be in great shape,I don't know.Just don't expect a moose hunt to be all that easy

We're both fearful that he's getting too old. He's a trooper though. We'll see how he does elk hunting this year. We made need to save the extra pesos for a guided hunt but that's not our style.

As far as being wet I'm prepared for it, I just want to do everything I can to stay as dry as possible! I may need to pay for two gear flights so I can have a dry set of clothes to wear each day! :hump:

 

[Hawk4974]

Hawk,

I've used Papa Bear Adventures (Bethel, AK) before and would highly recommend them, especially for a once in a life time hunt with your father. They have A LOT of repeat customers (myself included), which is an indication that people are having good experiences or they wouldn't be going back! Nearly all of your questions can be answered by reviewing their website.

That's the kind of referral I like! It looks like you got a great bull. I tried to expand the photo but it wouldn't let me.

As far as rain gear is concerned, I'm already trying to buy stuff in preparation so I don't have to spend another $2,500 and not know how it works. I really like the KUIU jackets! That cammo pattern would work very well for AZ as well as AK. I've never owned waders or anything so I'd need to try several pair on to see what's comfortable. So far as cotton is concerned, I don't own ANY cotton clothes for hunting. I learned that lesson once fleece and poly materials became affordable for the common man. I remember freezing as a kid because all I had was cotton and humping up and down the mountains of CO sweating because I had too many layers and then never drying out 'till I got back to the tent/trailer! It was awful! My wife is from AZ and when we got married and lived in CO, I had to throw all of her ski clothes away and buy her all new stuff. She was amazed at how little she needed to wear to stay warm and cozy.

 

[Bambistew]

You ever walk in tundra grass??If you go more then a mile I'd be surprised.

To be honest, I would never do this trip at 65 yrs old like your pops.I'm 45 and think I have maybe 5 years left to do these type trips.But, he may be in great shape,I don't know.Just don't expect a moose hunt to be all that easy

What exactly are you referring to as "tundra grass?" Tussoks? Not many moose in the tussoks, and not a lot of it south of the Brooks. The ground in AK is wet and squishy just about anywhere outside the rock hillsides in the mountains. Yep you squish into it and yep your feet will get wet. You can either stay in camp and let it defeat you or put your big boy pants on and go for a hike.

I took two 63yo men on a moose hunt a couple years ago. We killed two moose and neither of them missed a step in 12 days. We put on a hell of a lot of miles, walked through some nasty thick, wet, squishy, dirty stuff, as rough as any hunt I've been on. The closest moose to camp was just over a mile, the other was two. These guys are seriously considering coming back next fall to chase caribou and moose. They'll be 66... and I've no doubt they'll get it done.

You will be wet, and I suggest you bring a shelter that will support a wood stove to dry you out and heat. It will make for a much more enjoyable experience. Some areas don't' have a lot of wood however and most of the wood we do have is junk compared to anything down south...

Talk with your taxi/outfitter to see what the best options are. Propane is a poor source of heat, as it expels water vapor and makes the tent really damp, but its better than nothing.

Best suggestion to keeping dry... don't get wet in the first place. Its hard to keep your boots dry.

Get used to wet boots, bring lots of socks to change out, and gaitors to keep the water from coming in the top.