poor accuracy guns

[schmalts]

You have any? do you have a gun that cannot shoot under 1.5-2 inches?
I have a couple. I dont know why i keep them. I am not a hand loader though and i shoot factory ammo. Heres something that you may find intersting. I have a Rem 700 stainless in 300winmag. Bets groups @ 100 with cheapo Federal power shock 180gr is about 1.5 inches. This week i thought i would zero it @200 at the range. I also thought i would try some "premium" ammo to see what it would do so i bought a 40$ box of Federal Vital shok 180gr Nosler Accubonds to try. results? cheapo 12$ ammo grouped (@200) a 4 inch horizontal line with a 5 shot group. 40$ ammo... i kept them in a 6 inch spray pattern:BLEEP: So much for buyinh that stuff again

 

[csutton7]

is your scope tight---how do you set up at the range??....chris

 

[Rogue 6]

Learn to handload. Its not hard and you'll cut that group in half.

 

[schmalts]

scope is definitly not the problem.

 

[noharleyyet]

Have someone you trust shoot it.

 

[Bambistew]

Is the rifle bedded? Scope mounts solid, lapped and aligned? Horizontal grouping is usually the result of something mechanical with the rifle/scope/mounts. Was the scope tested on a different rifle, or how do you know its definately not the problem?

BTW my M70 375H&H will only print about 1.5-2" at a 100 yards, but I havn't played around with it much. For the work its designed for it shoots good enough. I killed a kudu with it at about 300 yards last year.

 

[T Bone]

Shoot what it likes and don't fret. 1.5" is fine.

I'm guessing the remmy will tighten up with some tinkering.

 

[schmalts]

OK, heres a question. It is a Stainless/synth model. I cannot slide a paper down between the stock and barrel. Are these supposed to be floating or not? Anyone ever grind away at the stock and get better results from doing so?
I know it's not me. i can do sub 1" with my other favorite rifle but just not this one. I tried some guys hand loads this weekend and they were no better, and i had a hard time closing the bolt on them???

 

[Buffalobob]

Freefloat the barrel, bed the action, adjust the trigger.

 

[schmalts]

Freefloat the barrel, bed the action, adjust the trigger.

The trigger is already done. I love the 700 for this.
Anyone else second the freefloat? I dont want to remove what cannot be put back on. Anyone have one of these to see if thiers is freefloating?
Also, as far as bedding goes, what would stick to these stocks? I bedded a wooden stock before but that is easy because about anything sticks to bare wood.

 

[schmalts]

Is the rifle bedded? Scope mounts solid, lapped and aligned? Horizontal grouping is usually the result of something mechanical with the rifle/scope/mounts. Was the scope tested on a different rifle, or how do you know its definately not the problem?

.

Not bedded, scope is a VariX-3 that was on a more accurate rifle before this one.

 

[guppie9]

Schmalts,

I have a Rem 700 S/S in 300 winmag as well. I have a Luepold 3x9 variable and I have no problem shooting sub 1" groups out to 200 yards. I usually shoot 180 gr Federal Vital Shok Nosler Partitions straight out of the box. Sounds like we have damn near the same equipment. I will say that the trigger has been redone. The barrell is not floated but the action is glass bedded. I don't know how much of a difference it made as all the work was done before I bought it. Not sure if that is helpful or not, but if you are having that much trouble and it is only with that rifle, I say at least do the bedding and see how it fires. I'll also second having the scope/rings double checked, as you never know what might have happened when they were mounted.

 

[Bambistew]

What kind of scope mounts? Std. Leupy with windage screws on the rear? If so, this would be the first thing I would look into, either locktighting them down, or replacing the mounts/rings.

hmmm. You say the barrle isn't floated, I wonder if thats something new? I have a SS 7mag, and a blued Syn 260. Both stocks where free floated from the factory. The 7mag has had nothing done to it and shoots scary accurate for a factory rifle. The 260 is bedded and it shoots wonderfully as well.

The tricky thing about bedding injection mounded stocks is you need to make a mechanical 'lock' with the bedding. After you remove a little bit of the stock where the bedding will go, take a 1/8" drill bit and drill a crazy amount of holes in the area at all diffrent angles. You don't have to go deep just something for the bedding to lock into. Remove all drillings, and rough up again with a little sand paper, then take some accetone and wipe it down. I also wipe it down imediately before I put the bedding it, make sure its dry though. A smith told me that trick... can't dispute it or not as I've only done one syn stock and it worked fine.

Big Green might have started putting the pressure point in the syn stocks? I'm not sure, but just grind it out before you bed and you should be good to go. Those stocks are not particularly stiff, but I find they work fine for hunting rifles. BTW if you hose it up, you can get replacements on Ebay for about $25-30 so you're not out much.

What will stick? Nothing, thats why you need to mechanically lock it in. You might try grinding/sanding out the pressure points first and see if that helps any. It seem to me that those injection molded stocks are made to very tight tollerances as it is.

Good luck

 

[danr55]

For the bedding, use Accraglas Gel. Rough up the stock with a rasp or a file then follow directions.

As to the floated barrel...I've beaten this drum for a long time. DON'T FREE FLOAT THE BARREL. Floating the barrel is something that target shooters started years ago to stop wood stocks from warping and changing point of impact. It is virtually useless with a composite or laminated stock. The pressure point at the end of the stock is to shorten the moment of occilation of the barrel. Bed the action, then shoot the rifle. If that doesn't help, you may have to hand load for the rifle. Another thing you may have to accept is that without a lot of work, this may not be a sub MOA rifle.

 

[pa mt man]

Schmalts, yes I have had a few bad shooters and they didn't stay. One an new A bolt and a 340 Weatherby. Traded both of them in. I'm sure it was something that could of been fixed by a gunsmith. Just didn't have one I could trust. The main thing is you got to have a gun that that you can trust and I didn't with those two.


"Another thing you may have to accept is that without a lot of work, this may not be a sub MOA rifle."

Two guys posted while I wrote my short paragraph. I guess that's what I was tring to say.

 

[schmalts]

What kind of scope mounts? Std. Leupy with windage screws on the rear? If so, this would be the first thing I would look into, either locktighting them down, or replacing the mounts/rings.

hmmm. You say the barrle isn't floated, I wonder if thats something new? I have a SS 7mag, and a blued Syn 260. Both stocks where free floated from the factory. The 7mag has had nothing done to it and shoots scary accurate for a factory rifle. The 260 is bedded and it shoots wonderfully as well.

Good luck

This gun was set up and bought over a decade ago. The rings are Leoupold but the kind that you twist lock into the base, no windage adjustment on them. Since the gun is 10 years old i dont think it is anything new to not be free floating.

 

[Dangerous Dave]

Good God, sure are a bunch of differing opinions here... and most of them are correct. A 1.5 inch 3 shot group at 100 yards is plenty accurate for sure and handloading might tighten that up a bit.
The two most accurate rifles I have ever owned both had freefloated barrels, but it's also true that certain rifles shoot best when there are upward pressure shims inletted into the stock's forearm where it contacts the barrel.
Three of my rifles went under the knife just this weekend. I freefloated and varnished the barrel channels and epoxy bedded the recoil lugs on all 3. I'l let you know how they shoot in a couple of weeks. They weren't all that bad shooters to begin with, and I'll be honest and say so if I messed them up any worse or not.
Part II: Scmalts, Have you cleaned the bore Really, Really REALLY well? I'm talking about copper solvent, bore brushes and the whole 9 yards and not just a couple of swabs of Hoppes. I never believed that powder and copper fouling could have as much effect as it does until I watched in horror as my sweet-grouping rifle that had previously been slinging them in at 3/4 inch all day suddenly started spitting bullets all over the target. And it kept on getting worse with each shot. I was ready to cut the rifle up for scrap with a nearby chainsaw when it dawned on me that I had fired nearly 30 shots through it and maybe cleaning the bore might help. Sure did... hello again .075 inch, 100 yard 3 shot groups.
What prompted me to go Dr. Frankenstien on my .257 Vanguard, Sako .375 H&H, and .300 Weatherby is the fact that I KNOW they can do better than the way I bought them. All had shimmed (upward pressure) stocks and barrels. I proved it to myself by inserting cardboard shims under the recoil lugs -and 'Lo and Behold- all groups shrank by an inch or two. So out came the epoxy and release agent... and we will see if things have improved or not.

 

[schmalts]

It's not copper fouling. Thus gun shoots just the same as it did from the first 5 shot group as it does now, probably 120 shots through it total. I tried a good copper solvent already and worked it until there was no blue on the patches.

 

[Dangerous Dave]

OK, just wanted to be sure, because a simple cleaning can work wonders for a rifle that insists on not grouping well.
Actually, if you're talking about FIVE shot groups as opposed to 3 shots, perhaps you've got a decent shooting rifle there. I try not to shoot more than 3 rounds per group with a magnum, because of how quickly they heat their barrels up .
How's the trigger and does the firing assembly have a heavy striker fall? Hint: Only if you don't mind dryfiring it, set the (UNLOADED!!) rifle up on a good rest and carefully squeeze the trigger off while you stare through the scope on target. Don't blink. If your sight picture "jars" or "jumps" off target, you have a heavy striker fall and your rifle will never shoot all that well.
The only other two things I can think of is the barrel crown and both of your guard screws. Eyeball the lands and grooves with a bright light and a magnifying glass. Any chips or dings should be addressed. The action (guard screws should be fairly snug -but not either loose or snap-the-heads-off tight either. Good luck.

 

[Horn Seeker]

Here's a cool link...This guys page has lots of useful info on it....IMHO!

http://www.chuckhawks.com/practical_accuracy.htm