Yes. Any or all.
Podcast Episodes on Public-Private Property Rights at Intersecting Corners
- Thread starter Big Fin
- Start date
Glad you picked up on that. If the Wyoming case can be settled based on a Federal law, it hampers state legislatures who want to circumvent. It is why we tried to cover "priority of law" at the beginning of the podcast.
These comments are helpful notes for us as we try to develop useful talking points for the subsequent podcast(s).
seeth07
Well-known member
So how do we go about getting a lawyer to help us file the suit on behalf of the hunt talkers and anyone else willing to sign and join?
Addicting
Well-known member
It also gets around the fact of the BLM range officer not issuing a ticket to them for all the shenanigans they did harassing the hunters.
As I understand, the suit, by statute, is required to be filed by the US Attorney in the jurisdiction where the event is happening. It might be helpful to have a local attorney press the US Attorney to do so, but I would think any citizen can make the claim. Just a matter of whether or not the US Attorney will make a priority.
seeth07
Well-known member
So maybe step one is to find out who that US attorney is and then maybe we all email him about it?
wyoelkfan15
Well-known member
Meet the United States Attorney
Addicting
Well-known member
Contact Us
PrairieHunter
Well-known member
Another way to use #'s is the group corner cross that has been discussed. If hundreds of hunters showed up and crossed that corner one day it would be interesting to see what happens.
RobG
Well-known member
I think "mens rea" and "touhy rules" would be useful topics. Maybe even how it applied to my case so other people could be more prepared if faced with a similar situation. Had I done more research on the status of the trail before going in I could have claimed mens rea to defend my reason for going in, but I only had the Forest Service's opinion, and they can only testify in courts under exceptional circumstances because of touhy rules.
*For those that do not know, I believed a trail in the Crazy Mountains had a prescriptive easement based on Forest Service opinion so I used that trail even though it was posted. I got a criminal trespass ticket. I incorrectly thought if I was found not guilty it would open the trail to the public. Instead, I learned that criminal trespass is simply knowingly going beyond the no trespassing sign. This is why, to be useful, the corner crossing guys have to attack the right of the landowner to prevent access rather than just being found not guilty.
Dakotakid
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- 789
It is a complaint to the Wyoming Assistant US Attorney under the UIA.
This guy
Meet the United States Attorney
Laned
New member
Thanks for putting an insightful series on this issue. I'm looking forward to the third podcast. Have you and Mr. Stonecipher and Mr. Vandenbos looked at Hill v. Warsewa et al.? It is a similar case regarding public access and property rights, but focused on stream access in Colorado. The last I saw of it, the federal 10th Circuit remanded the case to a Colorado state district court in March 2020. This, at least in my mind, provides some insight into how to seek a case through the federal system since the 10th Circuit said that particular case, as presented, did not provide for a case to be seen in the federal system.
Addicting
Well-known member
So I called them today and they refused to do anything on my behalf. They only work for law enforcement and I would have to go thru a law enforcement agency to address my complaint.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
Then I'd guess you need to talk to your representative? Some disconnect going on there.
RobG
Well-known member
Tangentially related is whether or not you have to get a ticket to have "standing" to pursue something like this. I had a Utah lawyer say in order to sue for stream access there someone had to get a ticket and suffer "injury in fact" or something like that. However, that doesn't seem to be the case for trails in MT. I'm not sure if someone had to get a ticket to pursue corner crossing.
TN_Rifle_Junkie
Well-known member
Randy and group,
As a easterner, this is a very intersting topic. I have known for years about the checkerboard but always proceeded with caution not to infringe on the "rights of landowners". I never considered that the population of the US and federal government as soveriegn and landowner as a means to potentially corner cross at legally known boundaries (marker pins). I know you did not state whether it is legal, moral, or just, but at the same time you said it might be construed that way dependant on the local "officials".
I know we have had some very strong opinions on the forum in the past about this exact topic. Landowners intentionally chazing people off, harrassing hunters on public land, and outright threatening.
These are the issues that interest me the most as the time progresses and the potential exists to expand out hunting heritage and potential areas.
As a easterner, this is a very intersting topic. I have known for years about the checkerboard but always proceeded with caution not to infringe on the "rights of landowners". I never considered that the population of the US and federal government as soveriegn and landowner as a means to potentially corner cross at legally known boundaries (marker pins). I know you did not state whether it is legal, moral, or just, but at the same time you said it might be construed that way dependant on the local "officials".
I know we have had some very strong opinions on the forum in the past about this exact topic. Landowners intentionally chazing people off, harrassing hunters on public land, and outright threatening.
These are the issues that interest me the most as the time progresses and the potential exists to expand out hunting heritage and potential areas.
Pedropistola
Active member
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2020
- Messages
- 84
I'm in Wyoming. I wonder if my feelings being hurt about not being able to access that public section next to the elk mountain ranch due to the signs and chains would be enough "injury in fact" to get the ball rolling. Maybe file a complaint with the local game Warden about it? Or better yet sheriff's office?
Don't want to go making the waters rougher and I've got BLM permits to worry about losing. I wonder if there is someone who knows a little bit more info as to how and who to go about it in carbon county
Don't want to go making the waters rougher and I've got BLM permits to worry about losing. I wonder if there is someone who knows a little bit more info as to how and who to go about it in carbon county
bucdoego
Well-known member
I'm enjoying this series, Big Fin (yes, that is a "thank you"). I did a quick search and found what I believe to be the source for your quote towards the end of your discussion in part 2.
"Power concedes nothing without pressure"
“Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.”
― Frederick Douglass
"Power concedes nothing without pressure"
“Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.”
― Frederick Douglass
bucdoego
Well-known member
Like some of the commenters here, I wonder if one of the hunting (bowhunters, NRA, backpackers, fishing, etc.) organizations might be a good vehicle to aggregate and carry any legal action. Maybe it would even be something multiples of these organizations might take on together. I'm thinking lawyers and lobbyists. The answer might be with the US Attorney, but ultimately, might it be something that would be legislated?
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