Philosophy Friday

[BigHornRam]

Nature is dog eat dog- survival of the fittest. Humans are the only animals that can reason, although we don't always use that ability. Trump operates closer to basic instinct than anyone here. What's better, basic instinct, or reason? With a finger on the trigger of nuclear distruction, I'm leaning towards reason.

 

[BigHornRam]

They don't have to. They just wait till after the first frost and eat the mountain ash berries. Very intoxicating to the birds.

But I want my beer right now!

 

[Tkaldahl2000]

But I want my beer right now!

Moderation in all things, especially moderation.

 

[sbhooper]

There is a difference between intelligence and survival instinct. Animals develop the instinct to survive, or they are not around very long. Survival instinct has been wimped out of most humans, even though they have reasoning power and can do great things.

 

[onpoint]

Nature is dog eat dog- survival of the fittest. Humans are the only animals that can reason, although we don't always use that ability. Trump operates closer to basic instinct than anyone here. What's better, basic instinct, or reason? With a finger on the trigger of nuclear distruction, I'm leaning towards reason.

The first photo is my niece's on an Oregon public seashore. The reason(s) I take a lot of the action I do is for them. I wonder why humans, who can reason, don't see these kids and fear for their future. I'm not talking The Donald's American Carnage - I'm talking a bigger picture, and a smaller one. Like my niece's ability to walk on Pacific sea shore open to everyone.

The second photo is a coworker and I on a 10500' ridge overlooking Montana's Hilgard Basin, about thirteen miles in by foot. Below us sits a bazillion acres of public land, and Grizzlies-big bull elk-big horn sheep-mountain goats-cutthroat trout. Out there in the distance is Yellowstone National Park. I wonder why humans, who can reason, would piss all this away for profit and power.

The third photo is the recent Montana Public Lands Rally, which had a definite impact on the current political climate and the absolute bullshit that it consists of and the assholes who are the perpetrators. I wonder why humans, who can reason, would allow the legacy of those who showed up for this stuff and passed it onto us - to be lost.
And why more don't show up in defense of our birthright. Especially folks like who frequent this forum - folks that stand to lose so much. The very stuff that gave this forum an opportunity to exist. And I ain't talking about the qualities of a Ford's eco boost engine.

Philosophy...... take action.

Thanks to those who are in this, balls deep. Hope more jump in.....

 

[u1299]

Amen to all you said.

 

[Rob Allen]

I would guess that the amount of knowledge possible is based on the size of that portion of the brain dealing with information storage.

without question though animals make better use of their information than humans do.

Also keep in mind that humans have and are responsible for information than they were ever designed have and from that stems all of our problems. ( since we are talking philosophy)

Lets just say that if a child trusted their parents they would never have the knowledge of what a hot burner feels like, clearly knowledge the parents don't want their kids to have. not all knowledge is good and some things we are better off not knowing.

 

[Ben Long]

SO here's another example that came to mind overnight. My bird dog knows pheasants. I mean, I can see a patch of cattails and say, there might be a pheasant in there, stomp around, and maybe flush a bird. But the dog, man, she knows it. If I got on my knees and sniffed the mud, I would just be silly. But the dog's combination of nose, brain and instinct will root out those birds like a machine -- or come back with a wagging tail to tell me, "sorry boss, there hasn't been a bird here in days." Now I am "smarter" and "have dominion over" that dog. Humans have the technology to domesticate and breed a wolf into a hunting companion. But the dog knows pheasants like I never will. Or could.

 

[onpoint]

But the dog knows pheasants like I never will. Or could.

You just hijacked your own philosophy thread with fact.....

 

[hank4elk]

I trust animals more than humans.
They are what they are & honest about it.
Humans not so much.

Good ?
I'm leaning heavy animals when I hear what I am hearing from the political/intellectual & average joe world. "A sucker is born every minute."
I'll let you know in 30 more years if I have been able to outsmart a buck or a bull a few more times.

 

[Gerald Martin]

To Ben's original question. False. Without diminishing the magnificence of animals and their applied intelligence for survival and existence, it is not even close. God created animals and gifted them with all the skills and instincts they need to thrive, adapt and reproduce in a wide variety of environments. Man is created in God's image and was given the ability to worship, have free will, understand the difference of right and wrong with regards to morality and make present time choices in anticipation of predicable future events. Man has the ability to build on the pool of knowledge from previous generations and exercise discernment in how that knowledge should be applied.

In regards to the abilities that God has given man, He has also given us the mandate to be responsible stewards of the earth and the animals. Unfortunately, many hold the view of "dominion over" to be a license for unmitigated exploitation rather than responsibility to regulate our relationship towards nature and the environment with sustainability and longevity in mind.

When Jesus was asked, "...what is the greatest commandment of all?", his reply was; "Thou shall love the Lord, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. And the second is similar. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."

When that teaching is applied toward conservation and the environment, I understand it to mean that we value the earth as intrinsically precious because God created it. I have a responsibility to keep my harmful impact on the environment to lowest level I can. Loving my neighbor as myself, means I do what I can to ensure that others can benefit from the earth as I have.

Specifically in regards to public land access, I know I have a bunch of neighbors of with a wide variety of religious and philosophical viewpoints who enjoy and benefit from what public lands have to offer. To that end, I am attempting to instill in my children and those around me the ability to understand what really is valuable. The reduction of nature resources and wilderness to commodities with value measured in dollars and cents, diminishes our humanity and created purpose. So to, does complete exclusion from access to be able to benefit materially from natural resources and the bounty of the earth.

I marvel over the beauty and majesty of animals fulfilling their created purpose, by their existence. That aspect thrills my soul and causes me to give thanks to God for His wisdom. I also enjoy the benefit of utilizing individual animals for food. That aspect thrills my tongue and fills my belly.

 

[onpoint]

....Hunters who prefer to hunt without guides, on public lands.

A lot of us are miles apart on some philosophies. Hopefully the severe polarization we experience can be somewhat and some how bridged by something as simple as the above phrase. Most of us here like to eat critters we are lucky enough to get ourselves instead of at the Safeway. I hope the simple simple stuff can unite us more than the complex unanswerable can be our undoing......
I hope sharing a brookie filled cast iron pan sizzling over a fire can - the word Trump isn't something I care to use anymore, fill in the blank - the divide brought about by other deep things.......
Hopefully we will be sharing that trout in the future, instead of fighting over it to survive.

 

[BigHornRam]

SO here's another example that came to mind overnight. My bird dog knows pheasants. I mean, I can see a patch of cattails and say, there might be a pheasant in there, stomp around, and maybe flush a bird. But the dog, man, she knows it. If I got on my knees and sniffed the mud, I would just be silly. But the dog's combination of nose, brain and instinct will root out those birds like a machine -- or come back with a wagging tail to tell me, "sorry boss, there hasn't been a bird here in days." Now I am "smarter" and "have dominion over" that dog. Humans have the technology to domesticate and breed a wolf into a hunting companion. But the dog knows pheasants like I never will. Or could.

So I worked out in the snow and cold today to make few bucks to buy dog food and pay vet bills while my dogs laided around in front of the warm fireplace burning wood I cut. They could care less about all the political garbage everyone gets lathered up about. I would like to change my mind, Ben. My dogs are definitely smarter than me!

 

[Hem]

I'm feeling cerebral today. So I'll pose a question, taken from Make Prayers to the Raven: True or false? Every animal knows way more than you do. Yes or no, and why you think that.

Coming in to this one a little late. I researched the title you offered and am intrigued. Certainly seems like something worth reading.Thanks for a subtle introduction ...MUCH better than other spew.Animals certainly have an edge but humans have EVOLVED to a higher level. Just one opinion that is just that.

 

[Little Big Man MT Chris]

Genesis 1:27-31

FALSE !!!! Im with Zach and others, GOD made these amazing animals, and designed them to operate and do all the awesome things they do, then handed over the reigns to us. To succeed or fail in how we manage his creation , animals or the planet in general

 

[Ben Long]

Hem.
Makes Prayers to the Raven is a great little book by Richard K. Nelson. He's an anthropologist who lived with the Koyukon Indians in Alaska and wrote about their native worldview. He also wrote The Island Within, which is about life near Sitka, Alaska, and Heart and Blood: Living with Deer in America. All of them are very thought-provoking, looking at hunting from both western and native viewpoints.

 

[katqanna]

Since this passage has been brought up as the basis for the superiority of human knowledge,

fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over...

I thought some of y'all might like to know the actual language and context of the passage, since it is not English/American.

In the Semitic language of the Tanak (the Old Testament), bara does not mean to create, it means to build with already existing materials, like a pregnant woman building a child in the womb or builders erecting a structure.

The builders in this case, yes plural, is not a male, monotheistic deity, but the Elohiym (plural), which is from Ugarit, it was the pantheon of a very cosmopolitan, aggregate culture in the Bronze Age. This was a polytheistic, conquering, nomadic culture of the Amurru, part of which came from the Akkadian conquerors as they spread west, beginning to settle into cities, then south into the territory of what we now know as Israel. My last name is from the Ugaritic language.

So the builders of mankind for servants, the Elohiym, according to the borrowed passages in the Tanak, goes back to the polytheistic Ugaritic legends. The head of the pantheon was El, represented and said to take the form of a bull - an animal.

The English word subdue in the quote above, which some English translations have as dominion, is kabasa in the Hebrew, an Akkadian loanword, kabasu. Kabasu means to tread down, attack, raid.
The English word rule in the quote above is radda in the Hebrew, again, an Akkadian loanword, radadu, which means to beat down, flatten, to pursue the enemy.

Ancient Ugarit culture headquarters is now in the coastal territory of Syria, you know, where all the refugees are coming from.

Context is everything.

 

[BigHornRam]

7 months old and already knows how to take advantage of his surroundings. Smart!

 

[Irrelevant]

That a good looking pup BHR

 

[Zach]

Since this passage has been brought up as the basis for the superiority of human knowledge,

I thought some of y'all might like to know the actual language and context of the passage, since it is not English/American.

In the Semitic language of the Tanak (the Old Testament), bara does not mean to create, it means to build with already existing materials, like a pregnant woman building a child in the womb or builders erecting a structure.

The builders in this case, yes plural, is not a male, monotheistic deity, but the Elohiym (plural), which is from Ugarit, it was the pantheon of a very cosmopolitan, aggregate culture in the Bronze Age. This was a polytheistic, conquering, nomadic culture of the Amurru, part of which came from the Akkadian conquerors as they spread west, beginning to settle into cities, then south into the territory of what we now know as Israel. My last name is from the Ugaritic language.

So the builders of mankind for servants, the Elohiym, according to the borrowed passages in the Tanak, goes back to the polytheistic Ugaritic legends. The head of the pantheon was El, represented and said to take the form of a bull - an animal.

The English word subdue in the quote above, which some English translations have as dominion, is kabasa in the Hebrew, an Akkadian loanword, kabasu. Kabasu means to tread down, attack, raid.
The English word rule in the quote above is radda in the Hebrew, again, an Akkadian loanword, radadu, which means to beat down, flatten, to pursue the enemy.

Ancient Ugarit culture headquarters is now in the coastal territory of Syria, you know, where all the refugees are coming from.

Context is everything.

Not sure what to say. Context is everything.

There is also a vast difference between knowing the words(what you think they mean) and having a personal relationship with God, the Creator.