Packs...

[DBaker]

Hey Guys, I am new to the board I have post some questions in other topics and this is my first for this. If you haven't seen my other post, I am almost 20 almost half way threw college and just now getting interested in hunting and shooting. Looking back now and kicking myself for not going with my dad when he oftered to take and teach me. Now I am just looking to gather knowledge intill I have time to get out and start hunting, hopefuly next fall.

My question is about packs.

Do hunters own more than one pack or use a common back for different types of trip (1 day to 4 day/night trip)?

Common sizes of packs? I have checked out cabela's and have seen a range of packs.

Right now I am just interested in the packs, if you could also add on what are common take along items on hunts also. (First Aid, Maps/Compus, Radio, Extra Clothes) what eles?

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-11-2004 16:02: Message edited by: DBaker ]</font>

 

[Yukon Hunter]

DBaker-
Go have a look at the Big Game section- there's a topic in there dealing with what to take on a sheep hunt. If you're talking about only going for a couple of days, pare down the list from there.
And, despite the fact that I don't have one (yet), I'd echo T Bone's choice of the Kifaru pack- expensive as hell, and totally worth it.

 

[A-con]

Anybody got a link to the Kifaru web site ?

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-18-2004 12:14: Message edited by: A-con ]</font>

 

[Moosie]

A-con AKA Anaconda (I had to look you up by your Member # cuz I didn't realized ya changed handles)

Try : http://www.kifaru.net/

 

[T Bone]

A-con (Anaconda)

The Kifaru packs are worth the money IMO. Downright comfy, and with a lifetime warranty. The owner, Pat has a booth at the FNAWS, SCI, RMEF shows in Reno if you want to try before you buy.

Or you could come bowhunting with us at Choppers and I could let you try mine!

 

[pawclaws]

Man, got to tell you those Kifaru packs are out of sight!! Check out the tipi and wood burner back pack stove components also. A bit steep; but, worth saving up for! Thanks Moosie, Paws is going to have one of each!!

 

[pawclaws]

DBaker; If I can get this slow thing to work I'll post some research notes I have here regarding backpacks. Still kind of rough. I've been gathering data to include in a backpacking cookbook I'm writing. Hope this stuff helps:

Choosing the right Pack

There are basically three generic types of backpacks. External-frame backpacks, Internal-frame, and frameless packs which include belly and fanny packs. To determine the type of pack you need, you need to ask the following questions:

Internal-frame backpacks are designed to handle most types of weekend or extended backpacking trips. They let you pack a large amount of gear in a very organized fashion and carry it comfortably over rough terrain. The frame is built in to the back of the pack, so it gives you superior balance and freedom of movement. They have no exposed frame parts, so they are easy to store in canoes, airplanes, and busses.


The drawback to the Internal-frame pack, is that since they hug the body so well for balance, they do not allow for ventilation in hot weather.


External Frame Packs
The External-frame backpack is designed for weekend backpacking as well as extended trips, while allowing you to carry a large amount of gear comfortably on developed trails. External-frame packs place the load over your natural center of gravity. This allows you to walk normally and conserver energy even when carrying heavy loads. The frame also holds the pack off your back, so air circulates, keeping you cool and comfortable.


Travel Packs
The 2-in-1 packs like the Camp Trails Traveler and Rendezvous packs are not only designed for luggage use but for backpacking as well. If you need a pack that is versatile for traveling or backpacking, this type of pack may be for you. They have internal frames so as to not get caught on baggage conveyors.


Rucksacks and Daypacks
These types of packs are used for mainly day hiking and carrying just what you need for the day or may also be used for carrying your books and prized belongings at school or work.

Loading an Internal Frame Pack

Zone A:


This is the area of the pack that is next to your back when the pack is on.


Zone B:


The area of the pack that is furthest away from your back, and may include the outside pockets is considered Zone B.


Zone C:


The bottom compartment of the pack. Where packs do not have a separate bottom compartment, this would include the bottom of the main compartment.


Packing Zone A:


Pack heavy gear in the middle of your pack, close to the back. This gives you better control and balance of the pack's weight for rock hopping and bush-whacking. If the weight is packed too low or too far away from your body, the pack will pull you backward. A tent can be separated from the poles, folded tightly in the middle of the pack, and the poles can be stored in the interior or lashed to the outside. Other heavy gear like the stove, cook kit, food, etc. goes here too.


Packing Zone B:


Medium-weight items like a water purifier go in the middle of the pack, away from your back. Lightest, bulkiest gear goes toward the outer edges and the top of the pack.


Packing Zone C:


Your sleeping bag is stuffed in the bottom compartment of the pack.


External Side Pockets:


This is where you place frequently used gear like a map, compass, knife, snacks, water bottle, sunscreen, camera, journal and items you want quickly like rain gear and a first-aid kit.


Additional Packing Tips:


Use nylon stuff sacks to organize your gear.
Keep rain gear, first-aid kit, snacks, water and other frequently used items in easily accessible areas if not in external pockets.
Keep fuel bottles away from food stuff sacks.


Loading an External Frame Pack

Zone A:


This is the area of the pack that is next to your back when the pack is on.


Zone B:


The area of the pack that is furthest away from your back, and may include the outside pockets is considered Zone B.


Zone C:


The bottom of the pack frame where the frame sticks out below the pack.


Packing Zone A:


Pack heavy gear like your stove, water bottles, food, etc. high in the upper compartments or upper pockets. Keep heaviest items closest to your back. Weight packed too low or too far back to the front of the pack will force you to lean forward to counter balance it. Lash the tent to the extender bar on top.


Packing Zone B:


For medium weight gear, like clothing, camera, flashlight, and personal gear.


Packing Zone C:


Pack the lightest, bulkiest gear on the bottom. A sleeping bag can be stuffed into the bottom compartment or if its too bulky, lashed to the frame below the packbag.


Additional Packing Tips:


Use nylon stuff sacks to organize your gear.
Keep rain gear, snacks, first aid kit, and other frequently used items in easily accessible outside pockets.
Lash long objects like tent poles and fishing poles to the sides of the pack, or store them inside, if the pack has a divider with pass through corners.
Keep fuel bottles away from food stuff sacks.

Loading an External Frame Pack

Zone A:


This is the area of the pack that is next to your back when the pack is on.


Zone B:


The area of the pack that is furthest away from your back, and may include the outside pockets is considered Zone B.


Zone C:


The bottom of the pack frame where the frame sticks out below the pack.


Packing Zone A:


Pack heavy gear like your stove, water bottles, food, etc. high in the upper compartments or upper pockets. Keep heaviest items closest to your back. Weight packed too low or too far back to the front of the pack will force you to lean forward to counter balance it. Lash the tent to the extender bar on top.


Packing Zone B:


For medium weight gear, like clothing, camera, flashlight, and personal gear.


Packing Zone C:


Pack the lightest, bulkiest gear on the bottom. A sleeping bag can be stuffed into the bottom compartment or if its too bulky, lashed to the frame below the packbag.


Additional Packing Tips:


Use nylon stuff sacks to organize your gear.
Keep rain gear, snacks, first aid kit, and other frequently used items in easily accessible outside pockets.
Lash long objects like tent poles and fishing poles to the sides of the pack, or store them inside, if the pack has a divider with pass through corners.
Keep fuel bottles away from food stuff sacks.
Loading an External Frame Pack

This is an equipment list we recommended for each individual. Some items are duplicated when there are additional team members and may be eliminated using common sense.

* Backpack and gear bag(s) to contain all items.
* 3 Day's Rations (Dehydrated, high energy, lightweight soups, rice, canned meats, Ramen Noodles etc recommended (9,000 calorie minimum)
* Two Bic disposable lighters
* **4 x 8 foot tarp
* **folding or pack shovel (Not Coleman)
* **Individual First Aid Kit
* **Pack Saw(s) with blades for wood and bone, a hacksaw works well for bone and a small bow saw is great for cutting wood.
Hatchet(s) for wood cutting and butchering
* **Small cook pot w/lid or Sierra Cup
*Trail/Backpack Stove (wood burning preferred), Sterno Stove with fuel, Alcohol stove w/fuel, etc.
*Rain Poncho (Disposable OK)
*Sleeping Bag or Wool blanket bedroll
*Multi tool (Leatherman, Swiss Army, etc)
*Hunting Knives (Multi purpose field, Skinning bring 3)
*Rope or Heavy Twine (50 foot minimum)
*Personal Weapon and Ammunition
**Dry Clothes (Spare shirt, trousers, and socks plus an extra sweater and windbreaker or jacket)
*A 9 volt battery and very fine (0000) steel wool (for stating fires)
* **Dry Waterproof Strike Anywhere Matches in a Waterproof Container
*Flashlight/Lantern
*Multi frequency Radio (two way)
*Compass (GPS Is nice addition but the compass is a must have)
*Area Map
Field Glasses
*Pencil and Notebook
*Freeze proof Canteen or thermos (minimum 1 quart capacity)
*Duct Tape
* **Fishing net(emergency use only for catching small game/fish)
*Small bottle of 97% Rubbing Alcohol
Snow Shoes
Camera and Film or Disks and batteries
Paperback book
*Toilet Paper
Zip Lock Bags
*Plastic Garbage Bags (at least 2 black)
*Personal Medications
*Hunting license and tag
Foam or air mattress ground pad (for under sleeping bag or cot use)
Camp Shelter (Tent with an under tent ground cloth and rain fly)
**AM/FM radio/CD Player(w/earphone if to be taken on hunt)
*Whistle
*Signal Mirror
*3 Emergency 6 hour Candles
Skis
Sharpening stone and steel
Gun cleaning kit and oil
Fishing pole, reel, tackle, and bait
Personal folding chair
Sleeping cot
Personal Dining service and utensils
Personal Toiletries/Grooming equipment
Camp Table(s)
Propane/Butane cooking/heating stoves and fuel
Cooking Gear (Pots Pans Utensils)
**Chow (for camp contributions and recipes)
Sewing kit
*Eyeglass repair kit
*Denture repair kit
**Predator resistant containers
**Shovel, Axe, Chain Saw w/fuel/oil
*10% minimum Capison Pepper Spray for protection from bear
* Glucerna bars for diabetics
* Extra pairs of contact lenses
* Sun or Snow glasses
* Chemical activated hand warmers
**Space heaters for in tent use
* Emergency or space blankets
* Bore Snake
* Zip Ties
* Chemical light sticks
Pack Frame For packing out kill
* Spare batteries for lights, GPS, cameras, and radios
Notes:


* Item is highly recommended to be taken on day hikes/hunt to serve as
survival gear during an emergency situation.
** Purpose or use is expanded

Survival Elements: Water (W) Shelter (S) Heat (H) Food (F) Medical (M) Remain for Rescue (R) Comfort (C)

Remember: W-S-H-F-M-R-C or (W)hen (S)tuff (H)appens (F)ind (M)y (R)anger (C)amp
Probably the most difficult part of the adventure is taking along the things that you will "REALLY" need. I envy the man who ventures forth with a tin cup and a pen knife to conquer the wild. ("NOT!!") My hunting friends often tease me over the enormous size of my packs and variety of gear. My philosophy is this: I'm carrying it so shut up! I have high blood pressure so if I find there is something that I need and it isn't there I get angry and "pop!" So shut up! If you ridicule me then discover that you left something behind; "You are never going to hear the end of it!" Besides, I like to make sure that I have enough for everyone and that often includes mess kits, my camp mates aren't packing.. With some practice and note taking you will soon figure out what is required. These are the basic guidelines to help you choose the right gear for your particular needs. These, with a little common sense, will soon make you an expert. When venturing into the great out doors there are certain essentials that you must provide. These are Water, Shelter, Heat, Food, Medical, Rescue, and Comfort items. Remember this list by this phrase: "When Stuff Happens Find My Ranger Camp" or (WSHFMRC) which are the first letters of each word. That does not mean that you must carry everything with you. If provisions are available along the way be sure to take advantage of them. Consider the climate you are entering. You probably will not need a fleece-lined parka in Georgia in the middle of July! (Although if you check "my" pack you will probably find one!) Likewise, Bermuda shorts are not helpful in a Wyoming winter deer hunt. Here are some suggestions for each category:

Water - (The most important item!!) If plenty of fresh water is available on your planned route all you will need are collection, filtration, and purification methods. There is no need to carry heavy water with you. A water bottle or canteen, a filtration system, and a purification method is all that is needed. All water should be either boiled, or treated chemically, before use. Collect water with a small plastic pail or the backpack cooking pot. If water is not available, pack and carry all that you intend to use for cooking, drinking, and sanitation. Plan carefully and add an extra day's supply to be safe. Don't forget about snow and ice. If camping in the winter melt and purify these using fuel sources found in camp. Remember that you will need to consume about 64 ounces, two quarts, of water per person per day. Use a little common sense and adjust this figure for climate and weather. Don't forget to consider the water used in food preparation and if you plan to bathe, shave, wash dishes, or do laundry, you will need to plan for more.

Shelter - A complete shelter should include a lightweight tent, rain fly, ground cloth or tarp, a ground pad, and sleeping bag appropriate for the climate and terrain. Shelter may be as elaborate or as simple as you wish. Consider the climate, weather, potential weather, weight, and the basic intent of a shelter; (ergo, to keep you warm, dry, and out of harm's way.)

Heat - You will need a means of boiling water, cooking food, and providing warmth for your shelter and camp site. A lightweight stove, which burns wood, sterno, alcohol, fuel sticks, etc is an absolute must. A wood burner is preferred. Several long burning candles should be included. Bring the appropriate fuel for your stove in sufficient quantity for the venture plus an extra day.(That's why I prefer a wood burner, the fuel can usually be found on the ground!) If all the wood on the ground is too wetto burn; look up above your head where you may find dry, dead branches to use. Make sure that your cooking gear is compatible with your cook stove before venturing out. Pack 3 disposable lighters, a box of strike anywhere matches in a waterproof container, a magnesium bar, flint and steel, and a 9 volt battery along with 0000 (very fine) steel wool. All of these items are used to ignite fires. This combination of materials will allow you to start a fire in the worst conditions.

Food - You will need between 1,500 and 4,000 calories per day per person. Plan your menus to accommodate this requirement, personal tastes, length of the trip, etc. Here again plan enough for the trip plus a day or two extra.

Carry a fishing seine for strictly emergency use only. Use it to catch fish and snare small animals (under emergency conditions). It is an excellent hammock and camo cover. It is an elevated suspension system. Varieties are available that will support up to 500 pounds..

Medical - Don't forget your prescription drugs added to a good basic first aid kit. Be prepared for minor cuts, burns, insect bites, stings, etc. Insect repellants, sun block, and a jar of Vaseline should be included. Those who wear glasses, dentures, hearing aides, or contact lenses should include repair kits or spares. Training and preparation to properly apply first aid techniques is a must whether for yourself or another in your party. Get trained as soon as possible. It may save your life and possibly mine too.

Rescue - A multi channel walk around two way radio is necessary with extra batteries. A global positioning system (GPS) is a good idea. A compass and area map is essential. A sharp, loud whistle, a metal mirror, several chemical light sticks of different colors, and a small flare gun with flares are great to have on hand. Essentially anything that will allow you to tell someone that you need help should be included here. The most important thing is your "Itinerary". Leave a copy with a trusted friend or family member so that if you should not check in or arrive on time an alert is activated.

Comfort - Comfort items are of two varieties: (1) Essential and (2) Nice to have. The essential list is fairly standard and includes: A multi tool such as a Leatherman or Swiss Army knife, a personal canteen, a mess and eating utensil kit, a cooking kit, a toilet kit with soap, wipes, toilet paper, tooth brush and paste, a change of clothes and shoes, rain gear or a water proof poncho, a towel, a folding shovel, a folding saw, 50 feet of heavy twine or rope, a flash light or lantern, a kitchen sanitation kit, a small sponge, water purification tablets, extra cash for emergencies, a sharp multi-purpose lock back knife, a couple large plastic trash bags, and of course the back pack, ruck sack, stuff sack, or whatever it is you plan to carry all of your provisions in. As a rule of thumb a pack for a one day outing "day pack" should provide a minimum of 500 cubic inches, two days 750 to 1000 cubic inches, three days 1500 to 2500 cubic inches. Comfortable lightweight packs, which provide more than 5,000 cubic inch storage plus exterior additions, are available. I keep a daypack, three-day pack, and an additional fanny pack provisioned and ready to "bug out"! A small roll of duct tape, and several zip ties are often handy. A walking stick about 6 foot long by about one and a half inches thick is a good idea when climbing or descending slopes. Pick one up along the way. Those are the essential items and each and every one is "Highly recommended" as they are capable of helping you survive some very difficult situations with a little planning and ingenuity. The Nice to have things might include: a favorite pillow, personal CD player with CDs, sporting gear for fishing or hunting, a solar shower kit, insect or leaf collecting kits, a camera, notebook and pencil a personal recording device, hiking, camping, plant and animal identification, first aid, or survival cards, pamphlets, or guides. The Boy Scout Hand Book is nice to have!

With these considerations, make yourself up a checklist and write down everything that you want to take on your outing. Fill this checklist and practice packing your backpack, fanny pack, rucksack, etc. Experiment and practice until you are comfortable with quickly packing and unpacking your gear. Do a practice camp out in the back yard limiting yourself to using "only" those items on your checklist then revise your checklist! This will let you determine whether your backpack etc is going to be the right size for you. Too big is extra weight; but, allows for expansion. To add storage space, try adding a fanny pack rather than buying a larger backpack.

and remember.... When Stuff Happens Find My Ranger Camp (Water, Shelter, Heat, Food, Medical, Rescue, and Comfort)

One final word; the lightest and most important item you will take with you is your knowledge and experience! They are absolutely indespensible; but, to be fully used you must give yourself every possible opportunity to remain calm and confident during crisis situations and to think through all of your alternatives and opportunities. Bring thme both back safely with you and improved upon!!

 

[Ridge Runner]

Pawclaws. Great list and lots of good tips for packs. I'm looking into the Badlands 2200 pack. Have you any experience with these packs?

 

[pawclaws]

None personal with this particular pack RidgeRunner. Not that I can rememberanyway!

 

[pawclaws]

None personal with this particular pack Ridge Runner. Not that I can remember anyway!

[ 02-10-2004, 20:00: Message edited by: pawclaws ]

 

[pawclaws]

OK, that pack looks pretty good with a couple minor exceptions. I'm not comfortable with the "spin around" feature. I may be dead wrong but I'm thinking this might tend to cause it to be a bit unstable. The snug fitting frame might be a tad uncomfortable for warm weather use although this can be a blessing during cold or freezing weather. The bladder is impressive at 3 quarts, but; here again can be a mixed blessing during the wrong weather conditions. I couldn't tell if there was a drink tube supplied or intended to be used. Jest remember that hydration systems can freeze up if not insulated or warmed during freezing temperatures cutting off your water supply. Looks to me to be well worth the money. Remember; I never used one; my opinion is based purely on conceptual theory.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Phillip. Thanks for the input and the detective work looking into the pack I have contacted the factory and have been given a little hint That they are working on a newer one for 2004 in the 2200 series that will be out in March. For the money it does sound like a pretty good pack that would fit my needs and will see what they come up with in the new one. Thanks!

 

[nitro x]

Pawclaws WOW whats all that stuff weigh?Sounds heavy.You must be the ultimate boy scout, or went to the same pack class as my cousin.I guess theirs nothing wrong with all that stuff if you can carrier it.You have some relay good info there.I pack a little lighter than that.I like an external frame .its easer to lash meat to than an internal.A sternum strap is a must and big thick padded waist,and shoulder straps.best if you can try before you buy all packs don't fit the same. I always take clothing for the worst possible weather.I leave behind what I can manage without.stove lantern etc

 

[pawclaws]

Less than you might think. Everyone doesn't have to carry everything nor pack it all at one time. Lots of things can be accessed on the trail, prepositioned, dropped at base camp, etc. Several folk might end up sharing items like shovels, saws, etc. And here is the part I really like; Kifaru has a backpack tipi that weighs about four pounds and sleeps two! Shopping around for light weight for me is even more fun than packing out!

 

[Yukon Hunter]

Paws-
Unbelievable stuff over there at Kifaru, ain't it? I KNOW I'll eventually have the paratipi/parastove combo, but next payday I'm ordering the Longhunter pack package. I'm sooooo excited...

 

[Yukon Hunter]

Here's a couple of good ideas I've come across. I'm planning a solo backpack hunt for Dall Sheep in August- high energy food and saving weight are of prime importance to me. I'm using a Wiggy's sleeping bag, as they are absolutely the best. What they are NOT is the lightest- my Ultra Light weighs a whopping four pounds. Therefore, weight has to be saved in other areas.
Here's the stove I'll be using...
http://www.pcthiker.com/pages/gear/pepsistove.shtml
I can't count on any fuel sources at elevation, so I gotta cary my own.
I also LOVE this idea...
http://www.ultralightbackpacker.com/
Go to gear and food, and check out Moose Goo. A great idea.
More as I come up with it...

 

[Ridge Runner]

Geez it looks as if he gets his pack down to around 9lbs for a 3-5 day trip? That is pretty awesome.

 

[Yukon Hunter]

Yeah-
What I'm REALLY hoping for is 9lbs. on my way in, and around 150lbs. on my way out...

 

[pawclaws]

LOL!! Good thinking YH!! I'll check out those other sites too. Shoot guys; I don't go five hundred yards without at least a tent, bag, table, cot, chair, and TV!!

 

[pawclaws]

Man that Pepsi stove is terrific YH. That is freakin' "Rambo" quality genius! (Maybe McGuyver; but I can't spell McGuyver!) You got me thinking about getting into shape and hitting the trails with the talk about that sheep hunt. Picked up a gadget the other day by accident; thought it might make a nice display for my Ohio Camp Cooks function. It is a 2 burner LP gas Coleman "Picnic" stove. It has an original white, six oz LP gas cannister. I can find very little information out about the stove; but, the cannister has a "female" coupeling rather than male. This is the only cannister I have seen of this type. Anyone got any ideas how old this thing might be?