OnX map question re: roads (specifically MT)

[Yellowstoner]

Is there an easy way to tell which roads are open or closed in OnX or elsewhere? When e-scouting new areas I can’t figure out how to tell whether the road is private or allows public access. Also, I’m wondering if there’s a good guide for motorized access? Specifically what roads are open to trucks vs. side by sides vs dirt bikes. The roadless layer is useful to a point, but it’s hard to figure out what points are accessible.

I’ve attached a screenshot of an area where I know the northern road is closed, while the southern is open as an example.

Thanks!

 

[Coop]

I have the same issue. Definitely hard to tell, but typically I will try to find a gate or something that might block access on google maps. Also, if it is on Forest Service land, you can find motor vehicle use maps online through the USDA website that will tell you open vs. closed and what dates roads are open.

 

[kingderek]

You may need to buy travel maps—and hope that folks adhere to the regs. That said, in OnXMaps, there is a layer that is supposed to show the info you are after. When I checked though, it didn’t work for roads in MT—but it does appear to function properly in Nevada.

 

[406LIFE]

I checked the MVUM in OnX online as well and got the message" MVUM failed to load." That is problematic...

You can also check out the app Avenza, you can buy the same maps and have them saved for offline use.

 

[Yellowstoner]

Thanks for the ideas - I'm not sure I want to pay for (another) app, but it may come down to that if there aren't any free services that offer this. Even USFS maps don't seem to say where gates *should* be, and what roads should be open to the public. It'd be nice if MT would put that together so there was a definitive resource...

Maybe someone at OnX will see this and respond??

 

[WapitiBob]

MVUM is only good for Forest Service roads.

 

[CForest]

This is really the only thing I do not like about OnX (unless I'm missing something.) It shows a lot of roads that I personally know have been closed for 15 years or so. Still show up on imagery too so very hard to decipher what's open or not, but the roads are no longer numbered or even passable. That said, it makes some roadless areas show up as having roads, so maybe it keeps a few out of my honey holes haha!

 

[WapitiBob]

They pull the road layer off the underlying base map. I like it, I want to see every road regardless of it's status.
You can get county road data from the county and blm data from blm. I suspect we'll see a county road layer option in the not too distant future, either from Onx or Gaia. It's readily available for wyoming counties.

 

[Pilgrim]

Coincidentally, OnX just emailed a survey over the weekend in which they sought suggestions on how to improve the site. My response identified issues identical to those in the original post. If you're an OnX member, fill out and submit the survey. If enough folks make the same suggestion, perhaps our prayers will be answered.

 

[Yellowstoner]

Just a quick update: I put in a support request with OnX about it, to which they replied they do not have a way of distinguishing open/closed roads. I did not receive an email survey - but I will shoot them an email and request that feature be updated. I'm not sure how people plan out hunts away from home in places that have been previously logged. There are roads marked everywhere that aren't open. It would be useful to at least list the FS trails that have motorized access to see what areas to avoid.

 

[WapitiBob]

It's not that difficult. If on Forest land, get their mvum maps from the districts you plan to be in..

 

[Twincedar]

I’d prefer to seek out permanently closed roads in Montana for walk in spot and stalk hunts. I can’t find those on the MVUM’s as they only indicate open or seasonally closed
Roads. I’d love a layer feature that includes them.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

I think this is thread #30 on the subject ...

No, there is no layer and it would be extremely difficult to create. Try calling a game warden and asking if a road is public or private, often even they don’t know.

 

[2ski]

Avenza is not buying another app. It's a free app that you can buy maps in.

 

[RobG]

Avenza is not buying another app. It's a free app that you can buy maps in.

It’s a good app and free. You can download forest service maps, although you have to pay for them. The USFS told me they’d have travel plans on avesa and also available on the FS website.

If memory serves you can download from a huge inventory of maps not limited to forest service maps.

 

[Nameless Range]

I am an Avenza man. It's lightweight, always works, and anything in OnX I can concoct myself. The map libraries available in the app are perpetually growing.

All that said, keep in mind that certain forests , the Beaverhead-Deerlodge for example, they do not even have a comprehensive travel management plan. I have spoken to a warden who said it is damn near impossible for folks to be cited in that forest for closed-road driving, and it is frustrating as hell.

@wllm1313 is spot on.

 

[Big Fin]

I think this is thread #30 on the subject ...

No, there is no layer and it would be extremely difficult to create. Try calling a game warden and asking if a road is public or private, often even they don’t know.

.......

All that said, keep in mind that certain forests , the Beaverhead-Deerlodge for example, they do not even have a comprehensive travel management plan. I have spoken to a warden who said it is damn near impossible for folks to be cited in that forest for closed-road driving, and it is frustrating as hell.

@wllm1313 is spot on.

True statements. I've not found this available in Montana (subject of this post), but in Wyoming, most of the counties have a PDF map of public roads. Download it and expect some of those shown to have gates and locks on them.

As to the agencies, I am working on a Forest Service access easement and in all my research with folks "in the know" and at the agency, the USFS holds 35,000+ easements across private lands to public lands. Yet, only about 5,000 of those are in a digital format where someone can know about them without opening the file cabinets at the USFS office and reading the hard copies.

If we wanted to make a difference in public access, we should allocated budget to USFS/BLM for getting these easements recorded and in a digital format so the public and digital map vendors could have access to them. Knowing the local USFS folks is a great help to this kind of information in one's backyard, but that kind of insider knowledge should be available to all citizens, not just those who can conveniently go down to the local USFS office and be a pain in their butt.

Before hammering the USFS about it, understand that the budgets (Congress and the Administration) they had for doing these kinds of projects got reduced a while back. Seeing that budget request fully reinstated would get us more access than any things I can think of at this time. I think this would fall into the category of "low hanging fruit," but getting it on the priority list is hard; hard for reasons I don't understand. RMEF, TRCP, and onXmaps are working on this easement mapping project with the USFS in Region 1. Now, if we can get funding for the rest of the USFS Regions and BLM, big progress would be made to benefit all.

Point being, the information is only as useful/available as the agencies from which the information is provided, whether Federal, State, or County.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

True statements. I've not found this available in Montana (subject of this post), but in Wyoming, most of the counties have a PDF map of public roads. Download it and expect some of those shown to have gates and locks on them.

As to the agencies, I am working on a Forest Service access easement and in all my research with folks "in the know" and at the agency, the USFS holds 35,000+ easements across private lands to public lands. Yet, only about 5,000 of those are in a digital format where someone can know about them without opening the file cabinets at the USFS office and reading the hard copies.

If we wanted to make a difference in public access, we should allocated budget to USFS/BLM for getting these easements recorded and in a digital format so the public and digital map vendors could have access to them. Knowing the local USFS folks is a great help to this kind of information in one's backyard, but that kind of insider knowledge should be available to all citizens, not just those who can conveniently go down to the local USFS office and be a pain in their butt.

Before hammering the USFS about it, understand that the budgets (Congress and the Administration) they had for doing these kinds of projects got reduced a while back. Seeing that budget request fully reinstated would get us more access than any things I can think of at this time. I think this would fall into the category of "low hanging fruit," but getting it on the priority list is hard; hard for reasons I don't understand. RMEF, TRCP, and onXmaps are working on this easement mapping project with the USFS in Region 1. Now, if we can get funding for the rest of the USFS Regions and BLM, big progress would be made to benefit all.

Point being, the information is only as useful/available as the agencies from which the information is provided, whether Federal, State, or County.

Humans make things complicated, whether it's road access, parcel boundaries, minerals ownership, etc anytime you get into kinda of ownership mapping it gets complicated and has to be done manually. Everyone in every industry from real-estate to oil and gas, want's an easy button, but in reality you need a knowledgeable GIS analyst to map every single easement manually.

OnX has done a phenomenal job with parcel data, but to some extent they are/were stitching together existing datasets from various sources. It's complex and tedious job, but at least the data exists.

What @Big Fin is describing is building a dataset from scratch, an entirely different can of worms.

For context one of my first GIS jobs was mapping leasehold for an OG company, it took me approximately a year to get through 1,000 leases.

Further, there are also a ton of prescriptive easements that to my knowledge are never mapped?

Kudos to OnX, TRCP, and RMEF for working with the USFS on this project.

 

[westbranch]

I didn't realize how lucky I was with the MVUM being on Onx for all of my "local" spots until I started looking at other out of state areas to hunt and trying to figure out what I can actually access. I still find gates getting bypassed and have even found gates that are not actually locked that some people open and drive through. Should really figure out a person I can email/contact regarding some of those spots.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

I didn't realize how lucky I was with the MVUM being on Onx for all of my "local" spots until I started looking at other out of state areas to hunt and trying to figure out what I can actually access. I still find gates getting bypassed and have even found gates that are not actually locked that some people open and drive through. Should really figure out a person I can email/contact regarding some of those spots.

A great place to start is the county GIS department, I also highly recommend calling the county maintenance department and asking how far up X road they grade and plow.