Nope smokers not allowed

Laszlo Cravensworth said:
I know. But do your buddies who are having a great time moderating their alcohol say anything? We tend to only hear or see it from our friends when it's problematic, which is part of the definition of addiction.
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I'm just talking as a whole from someone who couldn't possibly had alchohol anymore involved in there upbringing. Im not saying anybody can't or shouldn't drink.
 
Exhausted said:
Lazy. So I will be as well.

Well, S&W, Colt, Marlin, Remington, etc. are all multi billion dollar industries, and whole cities and families depend, or depended, on jobs the companies create.

And no, I won't detail how personal gun ownership benefits our society. One, because I stated my position, and gave my reason, and you used guns as a whataboutism. Two, because I'm relatively confident you and others reading don't actually hold a contrarian position.

But, for what it's worth:

View attachment 404266

View attachment 404267
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So ,.. do we make it against the law to over eat ? The numbers matter right ?


AI Overview



Obesity is a major factor in global mortality, contributing to
over 4 million deaths annually worldwide. In the United States, obesity-related illnesses cause an estimated 300,000 to over 370,000 deaths each year, often driven by associated cardiovascular diseases and diabetes, with risks rising in both men and women.
Endocrine SocietyEndocrine Society +4
Key Statistics on Obesity-Related Deaths
  • Global Deaths: The Endocrine Society estimates that more than 4 million deaths per year worldwide are caused by obesity.
    Endocrine SocietyEndocrine Society
  • U.S. Deaths: Data suggests roughly 300,000 to 325,000 deaths in the U.S. are attributable to obesity annually, a number that has been compared to the mortality rate of smoking.
    National Institutes of Health (.gov)National Institutes of Health (.gov) +1
  • Rising Trends: Obesity mortality has shown significant increases, particularly during the COVID-19 pandemic, with rising trends in both men and women in the U.S. from 1968 to 2021, according to data in Diabetes, Obesity and Metabolism.
    Diabetes, Obesity and MetabolismDiabetes, Obesity and Metabolism
Alcohol contributes much more to us economy by far than the gun industry , but I'm sure I'm missing something ?

AI Overview



Alcohol sales and gun sales represent two distinct, heavily regulated industries in the United States, with both contributing significantly to the economy while posing unique challenges to public health and safety. While alcohol sales are vastly larger in total revenue and reach more consumers daily, gun sales have experienced a period of high, steady volume, often driven by fear-based purchasing or political
 
idelkslayer said:
So we're defending drunk drivers now? (I acknowledge your joke but...) I would be willing to bet that the percentage of drunk drivers that cause fatal traffic accidents is higher than the percentage of sober drivers who cause fatal accidents. It's just that there are so many more sober drivers that statistically, the pure number is higher than drunk drivers.
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Sure. But I bet if you broke it down to specific subsets of people, 16 yr old white boys from trailer parks, elderly asian women, etc, the results might be different. I don't know. I'm not pro drunk driving, but I also think it gets pointed to as this attocity against humanity while much larger impacts to society go either unnoticed or no one cares about them.
 
CRJR45 said:
So ,.. do we make it against the law to over eat ? The numbers matter right ?
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No, and never suggested that we should make it against the law to drink alcohol either.

I doubt you'll be happy to hear that my diet is largely sugar free as well lol. I also think the average person would be better suited to extremely limit sugar intake if not cutting it out altogether.
 
Irrelevant said:
Sure. But I bet if you broke it down to specific subsets of people, 16 yr old white boys from trailer parks, elderly asian women, etc, the results might be different. I don't know. I'm not pro drunk driving, but I also think it gets pointed to as this attocity against humanity while much larger impacts to society go either unnoticed or no one cares about them.
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The insurance industry pays people big money to try and figure this sort of thing out lol.
 
idelkslayer said:
I wasn't the person you directed the comment to, it just touched a nerve. I appreciate your response.

I am against both for myself. I have zero interest in partaking of either or any other drug. I value my long term health too much to risk the effects of substance usage. Hell, sugar is just as unhealthy as many controlled substances. The difference to me is the way drugs and alcohol affect cognition and behavior. I've been in many social situations as the only one not drinking and seen how people embarrass themselves.

I used to think we should just legalize all drugs, as long as it came with, commensurate penalties. Why should I care if someone wants to burn their brains out on substance abuse. Unfortunately they rarely contain the damage to just themselves. Over the last couple years I've become more familiar with the number of children in abusive homes or in the foster care system. Just look up how many kids in your county are in the foster care system and know that in 99% of those cases, drugs are a primary factor. Then think about how much it costs the State to care for those children, and the fact that for most it will be a self perpetuating cycle of destruction and crime for generations.

Some people can handle substance and use in moderation and still be productive people, some can't. If we are going to continue to allow it to be a personal decision to drink or smoke weed we also need to stop using kid gloves to deal with the fallout of the poor choices people make when abusing it.
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I appologize to you also .
So when do we stop ? The kids you mention are just the tip of the iceberg . What about kids being raised in racist households ? Kids that are raised by fat people become fat , kids that are raised by high school drop outs drop out . Religious nuts , political nuts , the list is long ..

Exhausted said:
No, and never suggested that we should make it against the law to drink alcohol either.

I doubt you'll be happy to hear that my diet is largely sugar free as well lol. I also think the average person would be better suited to extremely limit sugar intake if not cutting it out altogether.
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But you see my point ? It's a personal choice to over eat or to abuse drugs , but if we only focus on the negative aspects of either it's hard to make an objective conclusion , IMO?
Education is the answer , not more laws or people in prison .
 
CRJR45 said:
But you see my point ? It's a personal choice to over eat or to abuse drugs , but if we only focus on the negative aspects of either it's hard to make an objective conclusion , IMO?
Education is the answer , not more laws or people in prison .
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Honestly, I think you've been arguing a point I didn't make from the get go. I just said that I'm against both weed and alcohol because I basically believe they are a net negative to society at large. Sure, that applies to some other things as well, but that means nothing as it pertains to alcohol or weed (especially as we're not trying to nail down all of my opinions about everything and discuss whether any contradict, as I'm sure some do because I'm human, and often ignorant). If anything I invited someone to offer a reason I was wrong the net negative opinion, not compare these two items to a variety of other items.

I think the average person would be better off if they stayed away from alcohol and weed, and a certain portion of society (both users and their friends/family) would be much, much better off if alcohol and weed were avoided. Therefore, I am against them.

That speaks nothing of my opinions about legislation, personal freedom, etc.
 
Exhausted said:
Honestly, I think you've been arguing a point I didn't make from the get go. I just said that I'm against both weed and alcohol because I basically believe they are a net negative to society at large. Sure, that applies to some other things as well, but that means nothing as it pertains to alcohol or weed (especially as we're not trying to nail down all of my opinions about everything and discuss whether any contradict, as I'm sure some do because I'm human, and often ignorant). If anything I invited someone to offer a reason I was wrong the net negative opinion, not compare these two items to a variety of other items.

I think the average person would be better off if they stayed away from alcohol and weed, and a certain portion of society (both users and their friends/family) would be much, much better off if alcohol and weed were avoided. Therefore, I am against them.

That speaks nothing of my opinions about legislation, personal freedom, etc.
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OK , I see your point , I think , and thank you , I enjoyed our debate . I'm often accused of playing devils advocate , and I might be doing it here , but really wanted to understand why , I didn't mean to make it an personal attack .
 
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Exhausted said:
Honestly, I think you've been arguing a point I didn't make from the get go. I just said that I'm against both weed and alcohol because I basically believe they are a net negative to society at large. Sure, that applies to some other things as well, but that means nothing as it pertains to alcohol or weed (especially as we're not trying to nail down all of my opinions about everything and discuss whether any contradict, as I'm sure some do because I'm human, and often ignorant). If anything I invited someone to offer a reason I was wrong the net negative opinion, not compare these two items to a variety of other items.

I think the average person would be better off if they stayed away from alcohol and weed, and a certain portion of society (both users and their friends/family) would be much, much better off if alcohol and weed were avoided. Therefore, I am against them.

That speaks nothing of my opinions about legislation, personal freedom, etc.
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There is some interesting writing about alcohol and weed as a "social lubricant". Gen Z is the most anxious generation out there, consuming the least substances, and having the least sex. Certainly alcohol can be detrimental. Certainly it can be abused. But I look back on all the good times we had in high school and college, and even after, and a little bit of something played a big part in that. I'm pro most things in moderation, and I think Gen Z would benefit from more of that.
 
CRJR45 said:
I appologize to you also .
So when do we stop ? The kids you mention are just the tip of the iceberg . What about kids being raised in racist households ? Kids that are raised by fat people become fat , kids that are raised by high school drop outs drop out . Religious nuts , political nuts , the list is long ..
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I debate this with my wife and with myself all the time. My opinion and what I think should be done often conflicts with my belief in agency and everyone having their own autonomy. I don't like innocent people to be punished because others make bad choices. As a society we do have to draw the line somewhere. We drew the line at alcohol and tobacco for a long time. Now we are moving the line to include cannabis. I don't like any of it, but people can choose for themselves. But if their choice brings harm to others, they should face stiff penalties.

Where this intersects with gun ownership, I do think it is reasonable to place cannabis on the same level as alcohol in terms of using firearms while under the influence of a mind or behavior altering drug. At the very least, treat it the same in a legal sense.
 
idelkslayer said:
I debate this with my wife and with myself all the time. My opinion and what I think should be done often conflicts with my belief in agency and everyone having their own autonomy. I don't like innocent people to be punished because others make bad choices. As a society we do have to draw the line somewhere. We drew the line at alcohol and tobacco for a long time. Now we are moving the line to include cannabis. I don't like any of it, but people can choose for themselves. But if their choice brings harm to others, they should face stiff penalties.

Where this intersects with gun ownership, I do think it is reasonable to place cannabis on the same level as alcohol in terms of using firearms while under the influence of a mind or behavior altering drug. At the very least, treat it the same in a legal sense.
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How do you feel about caffeine?
 
idelkslayer said:
Where this intersects with gun ownership, I do think it is reasonable to place cannabis on the same level as alcohol in terms of using firearms while under the influence of a mind or behavior altering drug. At the very least, treat it the same in a legal sense.
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I think this is the opinion of most posters on this thread. Just going round and round to get there. mtmuley
 
mevertsen said:
Article 1 section 8. Clause 15 and 16.

When we get invaded, or when there is an insurrection.

So congress can call upon us to defend the state.

That is how gun ownership was intended to benefit society.

So our government doesn’t get taken over by another country or a popular sect within our society.

Those clauses and the 2nd amendment are to protect the United States and society as a whole.
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Good for nothin’ potheads are junkies! couldn’t protect their shorts from a wet fart let alone protect their community, state or country! 🤣
 
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