Non resident hunting advice

[brownbear932008]

I'll shoot you straight, it's tough I probably ate six elk tags in Montana before shooting a cow. Maybe I just sucked but I hit a lot of country. You say you're not in good physical condition. My question is what's your age and physical capabilities? Can you walk at least 3-5 miles with a few thousand foot gain in elevation? If you can if you shoot an elk 2 miles in can you physically process that elk and get it hung for cooling and packing? If you doubt for a second you can do any of these by yourself save your money and hire a good reputable outfitter that has prime access options to good elk country. Elk hunting in Kentucky and Montana are two different beast all together.

You gotta be realistic with yourself and what your true capabilities are or you're going to spend a ton of money for a camping trip. Been there done that many times. I'm 51 and the last elk I shot smoked me after shooting it at sundown and working until 10pm to hang him for packing three miles back. I ended up hiring packers to retrieve him because of warm temperatures. Elk are tough and hunting them can be even tougher unless you have paid prime access.

No experience with land trust but sounds like it could be over hunted easily. Elk won't hang around with any pressure they will change zip codes real fast.

 

[BuzzH]

Im not sure either, but that is how a lot of elk are shot in Montana every fall. Its definitely not my type of hunting

Right? Why it's so hard to make a recommendation on these threads.

If the priority is about making sure a person get an elk on a once-in-a-lifetime deal, then the stubble field hunts are the way to go.

If it's about experiencing the backcountry with a lower chance at an elk, different story.

It's tough too when you know a person is probably stretching things financially to just go on one hunt.

 

[Kydeerslayer64]

I'll shoot you straight, it's tough I probably ate six elk tags in Montana before shooting a cow. Maybe I just sucked but I hit a lot of country. You say you're not in good physical condition. My question is what's your age and physical capabilities? Can you walk at least 3-5 miles with a few thousand foot gain in elevation? If you can if you shoot an elk 2 miles in can you physically process that elk and get it hung for cooling and packing? If you doubt for a second you can do any of these by yourself save your money and hire a good reputable outfitter that has prime access options to good elk country. Elk hunting in Kentucky and Montana are two different beast all together.

You gotta be realistic with yourself and what your true capabilities are or you're going to spend a ton of money for a camping trip. Been there done that many times. I'm 51 and the last elk I shot smoked me after shooting it at sundown and working until 10pm to hang him for packing three miles back. I ended up hiring packers to retrieve him because of warm temperatures. Elk are tough and hunting them can be even tougher unless you have paid prime access.

No experience with land trust but sounds like it could be over hunted easily. Elk won't hang around with any pressure they will change zip codes real fast.

I really appreciate everything you guys post. Thanks

 

[Kydeerslayer64]

I really appreciate everything you guys post. Thanks

I just need to figure out if I ready to drop $10k and as much as a cow would be a great experience I’m not sure that’s what I want either. I guess that’s why the land trust were appealing as you are exclusively hunting on their ranch or access property through their ranch for a lot less money…but you get what you pay for and there is a good chance you never see anything.

 

[antlerradar]

I just need to figure out if I ready to drop $10k and as much as a cow would be a great experience I’m not sure that’s what I want either. I guess that’s why the land trust were appealing as you are exclusively hunting on their ranch or access property through their ranch for a lot less money…but you get what you pay for and there is a good chance you never see anything.

I would be very careful with a land trust hunt. I am sure there are a few gems in land trust, but it is going to take some research to find them. If I was looking to sell access for hunting, land trust would be the option of last resort. I am going to bet the number one reason landowners are in land trust is that the property they own is so lacking of quality that no outfitter or hunt club is willing to pay much for the lease.
If you place a high value on the experience of the hunt, start doing research and find some public that fits your ability. If you want to kill a bull, hire a guide, but even then, a bull is not a guarantee.

 

[Kydeerslayer64]

I would be very careful with a land trust hunt. I am sure there are a few gems in land trust, but it is going to take some research to find them. If I was looking to sell access for hunting, land trust would be the option of last resort. I am going to bet the number one reason landowners are in land trust is that the property they own is so lacking of quality that no outfitter or hunt club is willing to pay much for the lease.
If you place a high value on the experience of the hunt, start doing research and find some public that fits your ability. If you want to kill a bull, hire a guide, but even then, a bull is not a guarantee.

Thank you sir

 

[antlerradar]

Thank you sir

I am just wondering what has happened to HT.
Members on a DIY public land hunting forum, recommending a private land outfitted hunt. Pure blasphemy.
A nonresident newbie asking from hunting advice and not getting blasted, but instead getting some really sold advice. The OP's posts should be required reading for all newbies.
I hope you have a great hunt and get a bull.

 

[Kydeerslayer64]

I am just wondering what has happened to HT.
Members on a DIY public land hunting forum, recommending a private land outfitted hunt. Pure blasphemy.
A nonresident newbie asking from hunting advice and not getting blasted, but instead getting some really sold advice. The OP's posts should be required reading for all newbies.
I hope you have a great hunt and get a bull.

Much appreciated sir, everyone has treated this non resident Montana Elk newbie with great kindness and kindness and have been very helpful. I appreciate everyone’s feedback.

 

[cgasner1]

I am just wondering what has happened to HT.
Members on a DIY public land hunting forum, recommending a private land outfitted hunt. Pure blasphemy.
A nonresident newbie asking from hunting advice and not getting blasted, but instead getting some really sold advice. The OP's posts should be required reading for all newbies.
I hope you have a great hunt and get a bull.

I’ve looked at the land trust a couple times and it seems like it’s set up for guys like this. I don’t mean that this to be an insult. They all try and come off like they are offering access to a huge ranch with un pressured wildlife for a bargain. Most those ranches are about the size of your front yard. I think people with very little experience think it will be the fast track to a great hunt and will probably be very disappointed when they show up and realize they don’t really get much access for the amount of money they paid and if it did have game on it I’d bet someone else had already pushed them off. A guy may pick a spot up and all the timing works out great but my two cents on it is if someone is selling you something online for what seems like a bargain price there may be a reason.

 

[Kydeerslayer64]

I’ve looked at the land trust a couple times and it seems like it’s set up for guys like this. I don’t mean that this to be an insult. They all try and come off like they are offering access to a huge ranch with un pressured wildlife for a bargain. Most those ranches are about the size of your front yard. I think people with very little experience think it will be the fast track to a great hunt and will probably be very disappointed when they show up and realize they don’t really get much access for the amount of money they paid and if it did have game on it I’d bet someone else had already pushed them off. A guy may pick a spot up and all the timing works out great but my two cents on it is if someone is selling you something online for what seems like a bargain price there may be a reason.

Thanks for your comment!

 

[cgasner1]

Thanks for your comment!

I’m pretty sure the going rate for a cow elk around here is around 2k for a day hunt. Why would someone rent you their ranch for a week for a few thousand if they thought you’d actually be harvesting bulls? Elk can cover a lot of ground and the stars may align for you. Just trying to help manage expectations

 

[Forkyfinder]

I am going to bet the number one reason landowners are in land trust is that the property they own is so lacking of quality that no outfitter or hunt club is willing to pay much for the lease.

All could be fixed if landowners had the right to "outfit" on their own land. Just like they can do plumbing, or electrical, or a variety of other things that can require a license. Maybe we should get in office that believes in markets and not gov protection - it sure aint montana GOP.

Not my deal - but theres some good property on there. Can't be sure - but id imagine it can make more than a hunt club/lease - check out how much of them get booked. Cutting out the middle man might make it more profitable.

 

[antlerradar]

All could be fixed if landowners had the right to "outfit" on their own land. Just like they can do plumbing, or electrical, or a variety of other things that can require a license. Maybe we should get in office that believes in markets and not gov protection - it sure aint montana GOP.

Not my deal - but theres some good property on there. Can't be sure - but id imagine it can make more than a hunt club/lease - check out how much of them get booked. Cutting out the middle man might make it more profitable.

Landowners can outfit their own property, no license needed.

 

[MTGamecock]

If you aren't in decent physical conditioning, you have a few options:

For many of us DIYers on this forum, the idea of hiring an outfitter seems blasphemous, but if you have no experience with western elk hunting, have physical limitations, and aren't sure how many more opportunities you'll have to do it, I would absolutely shell out the money for an outfitted hunt. The only thing more difficult than finding elk in the backcountry is packing them out and an outfitter will take care of both of those.

If you go the DIY route, I second (or third or fourth) the possibility of trying a cow elk hunt the first time. If you come up empty the first time, the cow tags are a lot cheaper than the general tags, and the "experience" of hunting elk in beautiful country will be exactly the same. And, win or lose, you'll gain experience that will help you on the next trip. This was the exact strategy a couple of my friends from WV used when they came out here a couple of years ago. They did manage to shoot a cow on that trip (but would not have gotten a shot on a bull), but that was enough to hook them for future hunts.

Lastly, If you go the DIY route and have significant physical limitations, find somebody in excellent physical shape to come out with you, the younger and stronger the better. They may or may not even hunt themselves - there are lots of eastern hunters just like you who have never hunted the Rockies and would love to tag along on a trial run and potentially assist with a packout. Just make sure it's somebody with some hunting "common sense" and somebody you get along with. You'll have more fun with or without a harvest and you'll be safer with a buddy.

Oh, and I have no experience with the Land Trust thing, but 1,100 acres doesn't sounds like a very big parcel unless it has some very accessible access to some quality public lands. I do have a lot of experience with the block management properties. Grab Montana's access guide that lists all of the BMAs and study it really well. There are lots of good _deer_ BMAs under a couple of thousand acres, but if I'm elk hunting a property that small, in most cases I'm not really hunting it so much as _crossing_ it to hunt the public lands adjacent to it.

Good luck!

 

[Forkyfinder]

Landowners can outfit their own property, no license needed.

Nope.

 

[antlerradar]

All could be fixed if landowners had the right to "outfit" on their own land. Just like they can do plumbing, or electrical, or a variety of other things that can require a license. Maybe we should get in office that believes in markets and not gov protection - it sure aint montana GOP.

Not my deal - but theres some good property on there. Can't be sure - but id imagine it can make more than a hunt club/lease - check out how much of them get booked. Cutting out the middle man might make it more profitable.

I don't doubt that there are a few gems enrolled in Land Trust. I just finished browsing Land Trust and most of the properties are relatively small, I don't doubt that on those properties you would make more money in Land Trust than with other leasing.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I don't doubt that there are a few gems enrolled in Land Trust. I just finished browsing Land Trust and most of the properties are relatively small, I don't doubt that on those properties you would make more money in Land Trust than with other leasing.

Oh for sure. Some are a scam. You see lots of posts/threads here on the honesty in the outfitting industry all the time.

 

[Nick87]

I’ve looked at the land trust a couple times and it seems like it’s set up for guys like this. I don’t mean that this to be an insult. They all try and come off like they are offering access to a huge ranch with un pressured wildlife for a bargain. Most those ranches are about the size of your front yard. I think people with very little experience think it will be the fast track to a great hunt and will probably be very disappointed when they show up and realize they don’t really get much access for the amount of money they paid and if it did have game on it I’d bet someone else had already pushed them off. A guy may pick a spot up and all the timing works out great but my two cents on it is if someone is selling you something online for what seems like a bargain price there may be a reason.

Its hard for people coming from the east to understand how big it is out west. I know a local kid who asks me every year and I tell him to buy a point and he can go along eventually. He told me the other day he has a buddy with a relative who owns a 300 acre ranch somewhere and he's just gonna go that route. I started to try and explain and he wasn't having it. Have to figure it out the hard way I guess.

 

[cgasner1]

Idk I keep getting pulled back to what do you have for expectations? If this is a one and done deal for you I’d hire a guide. If you looking at making a few years of elk hunting but investing money multiple years into something such as land trust I’d still just hire a guide the first year to cut the curve down. It appears your age may be up and mobility down a bit if it was me I’d personally probably start looking at lower tier landowner tags in New Mexico. It just depends on a the time and money you have to invest for the desirable outcome your looking for. For all I known there may be a reason you are looking at Montana that hasn’t been mentioned it’s actually kinda hard to give a opinion missing some of the information

 

[Kydeerslayer64]

If you aren't in decent physical conditioning, you have a few options:

For many of us DIYers on this forum, the idea of hiring an outfitter seems blasphemous, but if you have no experience with western elk hunting, have physical limitations, and aren't sure how many more opportunities you'll have to do it, I would absolutely shell out the money for an outfitted hunt. The only thing more difficult than finding elk in the backcountry is packing them out and an outfitter will take care of both of those.

If you go the DIY route, I second (or third or fourth) the possibility of trying a cow elk hunt the first time. If you come up empty the first time, the cow tags are a lot cheaper than the general tags, and the "experience" of hunting elk in beautiful country will be exactly the same. And, win or lose, you'll gain experience that will help you on the next trip. This was the exactly strategy a couple of my friends from WV used when they came out here a couple of years ago. They did manage to shoot a cow on that trip (but would not have gotten a shot on a bull), but that was enough to hook them for future hunts.

Lastly, If you go the DIY route and have significant physical limitations, find somebody in excellent physical shape to come out with you, the younger and stronger the better. They may or may not even hunt themselves - there are lots of eastern hunters just like you who have never hunted the Rockies and would love to tag along on a trial run and potentially assist with a packout. Just make sure it's somebody with some hunting "common sense" and somebody you get along with. You'll have more fun with or without a harvest and you'll be safer with a buddy.

Oh, and I have no experience with the Land Trust thing, but 1,100 acres doesn't sounds like a very big parcel unless it has some very accessible access to some quality public lands. I do have a lot of experience with the block management properties. Grab Montana's access guide that lists all of the BMAs and study it really well. There are lots of good _deer_ BMAs under a couple of thousand acres, but if I'm elk hunting a property that small, in most cases I'm not really hunting it so much as _crossing_ it to hunt the public lands adjacent to it.

Good luck!

Awesome advice, thanks for taking the time to reply!