ND Game and Fish coming under fire for CWD Management

[WIbiggame]

Living in WI in the heart of CWD country its interesting watching states deal with this "new" problem.

CWD is spread via saliva, and lives in the dirt and where deer congregate or high deer populations seem to have higher prevalence. So we have a county by county ban.

WI has tried a lot to stop CWD nothing has seemed to really work. Honestly it appears to be self limiting. Our deer herd is still strong and growing CWD isn't decimating the herd like they initially thought it would.

A couple questions I have always had.

1) Saliva is the main way the prion is transfered from anaimal to animal. Well I can put a trail camera up on a primary scrape on our farm and get pictures of 90%-100% of the deer living on the property and new bucks during the rut licking the same branch along with just about any other limb on a field edge. So do we need to cut all over hanging limbs?

2) We know the prion can survive for long periods of time through all weather in the dirt. We can't move dead animals from county to county but farmers can drive their implements throughout the state without needing to clean the dirt?

3) About 5-6 years ago western states had a bad drought and were buying hay from WI, well that hay came directly from the heart of CWD country and now magically CWD is found in higher numbers? When will we put limitations on the farmers?

Edit:

Would using mineral sites in the spring be banned too? They are here, and i have seen a couple pretty good studies that site a magnesium shortage as a possible reason why some deer are infected and others aren't.

As a side note I think baiting is unethical imo but don't think it increases CWD spread.

 

[brocksw]

Living in WI in the heart of CWD country its interesting watching states deal with this "new" problem.

CWD is spread via saliva, and lives in the dirt and where deer congregate or high deer populations seem to have higher prevalence. So we have a county by county ban.

WI has tried a lot to stop CWD nothing has seemed to really work. Honestly it appears to be self limiting. Our deer herd is still strong and growing CWD isn't decimating the herd like they initially thought it would.

A couple questions I have always had.

1) Saliva is the main way the prion is transfered from anaimal to animal. Well I can put a trail camera up on a primary scrape on our farm and get pictures of 90%-100% of the deer living on the property and new bucks during the rut licking the same branch along with just about any other limb on a field edge. So do we need to cut all over hanging limbs?

2) We know the prion can survive for long periods of time through all weather in the dirt. We can't move dead animals from county to county but farmers can drive their implements throughout the state without needing to clean the dirt?

3) About 5-6 years ago western states had a bad drought and were buying hay from WI, well that hay came directly from the heart of CWD country and now magically CWD is found in higher numbers? When will we put limitations on the farmers?

Edit:

Would using mineral sites in the spring be banned too? They are here, and i have seen a couple pretty good studies that site a magnesium shortage as a possible reason why some deer are infected and others aren't.

As a side note I think baiting is unethical imo but don't think it increases CWD spread.

I don't think its very productive to spend a bunch of time trying to poke holes in all of the minor things we have no control over. Wildlife managers know they can't stop everything, they know they can't stop natural congregations, they know there are variables they can't control, welcome to working with wild animals. Don't be absurd....cut all the hanging limbs.

There are some things the wildlife managers don't have the authority to change because of the way laws are set up, sometimes its jurisdictional. For instance, one common example in ND that gets hammered all the time, is that North Dakota law allows wildlife "feeding". But then the game and fish is restricting baiting in CWD areas. The pro-baiting crowd points to that all the time, calling hypocrisy on the game and fish for allowing feeding, but not allowing hunting over bait. Yet, the wildlife feeding is not under the game and fish's jurisdiction. They can only control methods of take for hunting. So, they are being criticized for laws/rules/practices they have no jurisdictional control over. No matter how many times the Game and Fish publicly states that, people just don't listen. They just keep going on radio shows and repeating it, because all their buddies cheer when they do. It's silly.

WI might have similar issues, where the laws that govern the ag side of things is creating holes or gaps that don't match up with the DNR's rules and laws, causing the whole picture to look flawed. But really, it's just because each industry/agency has a separate set of regulations that aren't always made with the other in mind.

 

[WIbiggame]

I don't think its very productive to spend a bunch of time trying to poke holes in all of the minor things we have no control over. Wildlife managers know they can't stop everything, they know they can't stop natural congregations, they know there are variables they can't control, welcome to working with wild animals. Don't be absurd....cut all the hanging limbs.

There are some things the wildlife managers don't have the authority to change because of the way laws are set up, sometimes its jurisdictional. For instance, one common example in ND, that gets hammered all the time, is that North Dakota law allows wildlife "feeding". But game and fish is restricting baiting in CWD areas. The pro-baiting crowd points to that all the time, calling hypocrisy on the game and fish for allowing feeding, but not allowing hunting over bait. Yet, the wildlife feeding is not under the game and fish's jurisdiction. They can't only control methods of take. So, they are being criticized for laws/rules/practioces they have no jurisdictional control over. No matter how many times the Game and Fish publicly states that, people just don't listen. They just keep going on radio shows and repeating it, because all their buddies cheer when they do. It's silly.

WI might have similar issues, where the laws that govern the ag side of things is creating holes or gaps that don't match up with the DNR's rules and laws, causing the whole picture to look flawed. But really, it's just because each industry/agency has a separate set of regulations that aren't always made with the other in mind.

You say it's not productive to spend time poking holes in the small things well baiting is a small thing in the spread of CWD so you are contradicting yourself.

I agree with you that the limb cutting is absurd but really so is saying you need to ban baiting to stop CWD. My main point is a community scrape will congregate deer just as much if not more than a pile of corn or bail of hay.

If you think baiting is unethical and should be banned for that reason; say it don't use CWD as a scapegoat to get your way.

Honestly look at a map 2001 of WI and the CWD hotbed mainly Dane and Sauk counties. Overlay that with deer density and you will see the CWD connection to herd density. Like I said after watching and following this very closely for 20years this disease seems to be self limiting.

The herds in those counties that have the highest CWD positives also have the most deer and are counties that some of our largest bucks are shot out of. And guess what baiting bans have been in place for 20years and these counties still have the highest rates of CWD. So no need to see if ND is any different banning baiting won't change anything.

Again I think baiting is unethical and should be illegal based on that but that is my ethical opinion not one I am going to try and use a disease to push my agenda. We spent the last 2.5yrs living with that and look where it got us as a country and a world.

 

[brocksw]

You say it's not productive to spend time poking holes in the small things well baiting is a small thing in the spread of CWD so you are contradicting yourself.

I agree with you that the limb cutting is absurd but really so is saying you need to ban baiting to stop CWD. My main point is a community scrape will congregate deer just as much if not more than a pile of corn or bail of hay.

If you think baiting is unethical and should be banned for that reason; say it don't use CWD as a scapegoat to get your way.

Honestly look at a map 2001 of WI and the CWD hotbed mainly Dane and Sauk counties. Overlay that with deer density and you will see the CWD connection to herd density. Like I said after watching and following this very closely for 20years this disease seems to be self limiting.

The herds in those counties that have the highest CWD positives also have the most deer and are counties that some of our largest bucks are shot out of. And guess what baiting bans have been in place for 20years and these counties still have the highest rates of CWD. So no need to see if ND is any different banning baiting won't change anything.

Again I think baiting is unethical and should be illegal based on that but that is my ethical opinion not one I am going to try and use a disease to push my agenda. We spent the last 2.5yrs living with that and look where it got us as a country and a world.

I don't really have an opinion about the "ethics" of baiting. I believe I've stated that on HT before (though maybe not on this thread), but either way, its probably not best to make assumptions about someones stances on issues when you obviously have no clue. Don't feel bad, I do it too sometimes. Part of being a human.

But to address your accusation, I couldn't care less about someone baiting. Whether it's archery shots at 100 yards, rifle shots at 1000 yards, baiting, using hounds for predators, it's not for me to judge the ethics of someone else, especially if I don't know them. Unless they are obviously being irresponsible or reckless with their abilities, like someone shooting at a deer at 1000 yards when they've never even practiced at that distance, I'm just not going to engage much in the ethics side of things. I worry about what's ethical for me, and tend to try and operate in that realm.

Of the veterinarians/biologist I've talked too, exactly 0 have said banning baiting will stop CWD. Again, this has been discussed on HT before. The whole point of baiting bans, and literally every move wildlife agencies make at this point, is to slow the spread as much as possible. So that way, when the research side of things finds a solution, whether that's a vaccine, a genetic solution, whatever, we have some clean deer stock and clean landscape to work with.

Is baiting a small thing? Possibly? It is unknown exactly how much it can slow CWD. But I don't think we have to engage in very much mental masturbation to come to a logical conclusion that infected deer eating/pissing/shitting/sneezing on the same proverbial plate as uninfected deer, is probably not a good thing to promote or promulgate when it comes to disease management. Does that happen naturally? I don't know. How many natural food sources are similar to a 1000 lbs of corn being dumped on the same spot year after year after year after year? I can't think of any. There are some natural mineral licks that see some concentrations, but based on the baiting studies I've read, they are not seeing any where near the same type of deer densities around them as a bait pile.

I've even looked at harvest loss statistics for corn here in my own state. They literally conducted a study and went out in a bunch ag fields and counted kernels of corn (and other row crops) to get these numbers. They show a loss of 1-5 bushels of corn for every acre harvested. A bushel is 56 lbs. So lets say at max, that loss equates to about 300 lbs of corn spread across 1 acre (208 ft x 208 ft). Once that that lost harvest is eaten out of the field, the deer move on to another field. I don't know about you, but that sure seems a hell of a lot better than 500 or 1000 or 2000 lbs of corn dumped on the same exact spot that is continuously being replenished throughout the spring, summer, fall. That spot may be what, 20 ft x 20 ft? I don't know, maybe you're better at the mental gymnastics than me....

But to concede a little. I do think it's a fair question about baiting. It's a question I'd have a lot easier time with if the goal was to protect deer instead of protecting baiting. Therein lies one of the problems for me. All the hand-wringing and mental gymnastics being done are seeking to protect baiting, not the resource. There are literally people in ND that want the Game and fish to spend valuable resources to find ways to protect baiting from CWD. Imagine spending hunter dollars seeking to protect your particular hunting practices and not trying to solve the problem of the disease. How can you say you're thinking logically and rationally about this situation if that's your angle? Those same people then turnaround and criticize the department for spending money on CWD testing and surveillance.

It's like they haven't been paying attention for the last 20 years. Just a few days ago on a radio show they were complaining that they want a CWD plan, even though our game and fish has produced multiple detailed and in-depth CWD plans. They want more open communication and transparency on CWD, even though the GF has done more outreach on CWD than ANY other topic in my life time. Starting to see a trend here? They're late to the party. The GF has been talking about CWD fairly consistently since 2009 when we got our first positive. No one gave a shit until their bait piles were getting taken away. Now all the sudden the science behind CWD is "junk". "There's no proof cwd kills deer". "There's no proof baiting spreads cwd". Man, where were all these passionate advocates when CWD first popped up here? Where were the ideas and solutions and "support for research" they were offering when CWD first showed up? People like that, who have been ignoring the wildlife professionals is part of the reason we have these big gaps in research funding to begin with. Now they wonder why there's all these unanswered questions around CWD. "why don't we have solutions" they say. Good lord, what the hell do you think all these scientists have been working on for years? These guys didn't even pay attention or look at a CWD study until their bait pile got taken away. And of course, without fail, they just happen to find the "studies" or youtube videos or studies produced by high fence deer farmers, that support continuing the practice of baiting. That doesn't seem a bit flawed to you?

But nonetheless, it's a fair question. If banning baiting doesn't dramatically slow down the spread, is it worth discontinuing that practice? Every single veterinarian and CWD researcher I've talked to says those bans are probably the wise move. I'm not qualified to argue with them. But who does one believe? The Veterinarians and researchers, who across many many studies, mostly draw the same conclusions. Or the people who are accusing our Game and Fish of engaging in a conspiracy to kill all the deer, to end deer hunting? Or that all the science the professionals are using is "junk". I don't know. What are the odds that the average guy who just started looking into this a couple months ago is going to know more than a community of researchers/biologists/veterinarians who've spent years doing a single study and careers working with this stuff everyday?

 

[WIbiggame]

I don't really have an opinion about the "ethics" of baiting. I believe I've stated that on HT before (though maybe not on this thread), but either way, its probably not best to make assumptions about someones stances on issues when you obviously have no clue. Don't feel bad, I do it too sometimes. Part of being a human.

But to address your accusation, I couldn't care less about someone baiting. Whether it's archery shots at 100 yards, rifle shots at 1000 yards, baiting, using hounds for predators, it's not for me to judge the ethics of someone else, especially if I don't know them. Unless they are obviously being irresponsible or reckless with their abilities, like someone shooting at a deer at 1000 yards when they've never even practiced at that distance, I'm just not going to engage much in the ethics side of things. I worry about what's ethical for me, and tend to try and operate in that realm.

Of the veterinarians/biologist I've talked too, exactly 0 have said banning baiting will stop CWD. Again, this has been discussed on HT before. The whole point of baiting bans, and literally every move wildlife agencies make at this point, is to slow the spread as much as possible. So that way, when the research side of things finds a solution, whether that's a vaccine, a genetic solution, whatever, we have some clean deer stock and clean landscape to work with.

Is baiting a small thing? Possibly? It is unknown exactly how much it can slow CWD. But I don't think we have to engage in very much mental masturbation to come to a logical conclusion that infected deer eating/pissing/shitting/sneezing on the same proverbial plate as uninfected deer, is probably not a good thing to promote or promulgate when it comes to disease management. Does that happen naturally? I don't know. How many natural food sources are similar to a 1000 lbs of corn being dumped on the same spot year after year after year after year? I can't think of any. There are some natural mineral licks that see some concentrations, but based on the baiting studies I've read, they are not seeing any where near the same type of deer densities around them as a bait pile.

I've even looked at harvest loss statistics for corn here in my own state. They literally conducted a study and went out in a bunch ag fields and counted kernels of corn (and other row crops) to get these numbers. They show a loss of 1-5 bushels of corn for every acre harvested. A bushel is 56 lbs. So lets say at max, that loss equates to about 300 lbs of corn spread across 1 acre (208 ft x 208 ft). Once that that lost harvest is eaten out of the field, the deer move on to another field. I don't know about you, but that sure seems a hell of a lot better than 500 or 1000 or 2000 lbs of corn dumped on the same exact spot that is continuously being replenished throughout the spring, summer, fall. That spot may be what, 20 ft x 20 ft? I don't know, maybe you're better at the mental gymnastics than me....

But to concede a little. I do think it's a fair question about baiting. It's a question I'd have a lot easier time with if the goal was to protect deer instead of protecting baiting. Therein lies one of the problems for me. All the hand-wringing and mental gymnastics being done are seeking to protect baiting, not the resource. There are literally people in ND that want the Game and fish to spend valuable resources to find ways to protect baiting from CWD. Imagine spending hunter dollars seeking to protect your particular hunting practices and not trying to solve the problem of the disease. How can you say you're thinking logically and rationally about this situation if that's your angle? Those same people then turnaround and criticize the department for spending money on CWD testing and surveillance.

It's like they haven't been paying attention for the last 20 years. Just a few days ago on a radio show they were complaining that they want a CWD plan, even though our game and fish has produced multiple detailed and in-depth CWD plans. They want more open communication and transparency on CWD, even though the GF has done more outreach on CWD than ANY other topic in my life time. Starting to see a trend here? They're late to the party. The GF has been talking about CWD fairly consistently since 2009 when we got our first positive. No one gave a shit until their bait piles were getting taken away. Now all the sudden the science behind CWD is "junk". "There's no proof cwd kills deer". "There's no proof baiting spreads cwd". Man, where were all these passionate advocates when CWD first popped up here? Where were the ideas and solutions and "support for research" they were offering when CWD first showed up? People like that, who have been ignoring the wildlife professionals is part of the reason we have these big gaps in research funding to begin with. Now they wonder why there's all these unanswered questions around CWD. "why don't we have solutions" they say. Good lord, what the hell do you think all these scientists have been working on for years? These guys didn't even pay attention or look at a CWD study until their bait pile got taken away. And of course, without fail, they just happen to find the "studies" or youtube videos or studies produced by high fence deer farmers, that support continuing the practice of baiting. That doesn't seem a bit flawed to you?

But nonetheless, it's a fair question. If banning baiting doesn't dramatically slow down the spread, is it worth discontinuing that practice? Every single veterinarian and CWD researcher I've talked to says those bans are probably the wise move. I'm not qualified to argue with them. But who does one believe? The Veterinarians and researchers, who across many many studies, mostly draw the same conclusions. Or the people who are accusing our Game and Fish of engaging in a conspiracy to kill all the deer, to end deer hunting?

Thank you for polite discussion and I am sorry for my assumptions you are correct I shouldn't have done that.

Everything you mentioned I have heard and than some. I didn't see the "it's all the insurance companies looking for an excuse to lower car deer hits" though that one was my favorite argument of the CWD is a conspiracy crowd.

As far as your last comment about people believing it's the state trying to kill all the deer and end hunting, is maybe the most "creditable". In the first 3 years here the state gave out unlimited tags in CWD areas with the goal of killing all the deer. I don't believe any state in their right might would ever want to eliminate hunting though. The financial impact that would have would cripple a lot of states.

 

[MNElkNut]

I get so frustrated with barstool biologists. Hey, Ol' Dave down at the bar said his buddy saw a GF truck ..... fill in the blank. And these mental midgets buy into it like it is gospel.

I know a local guy who likes to start some ridiculous rumor just to see how far it will go. Unfortunately, many go way farther than they should.

 

[brocksw]

Thank you for polite discussion and I am sorry for my assumptions you are correct I shouldn't have done that.

Everything you mentioned I have heard and than some. I didn't see the "it's all the insurance companies looking for an excuse to lower car deer hits" though that one was my favorite argument of the CWD is a conspiracy crowd.

As far as your last comment about people believing it's the state trying to kill all the deer and end hunting, is maybe the most "creditable". In the first 3 years here the state gave out unlimited tags in CWD areas with the goal of killing all the deer. I don't believe any state in their right might would ever want to eliminate hunting though. The financial impact that would have would cripple a lot of states.

North Dakota receives 0 dollars from the general fund. ZERO.

Every dollar the ND Game and Fish has or spends comes from license sales and federal funding that is based, for the most part, on license sales and species(esa,ans,noxious weeds, grasslands, wetlands, other national initiatives).

Provide one reason to me, that the ND Game and Fish would be involved in or directly behind a conspiratorial plot to kill all the deer? One of their primary funding sources from hunting is resident deer tags, deer hunting has a positive economic impact on our rural economies, culturally it's one of ND's most popular past times and traditions, schools quite commonly give students the day off on the opening day of deer rifle season. Name one reason that ND Game and Fish, an agency full of people who live, work, and hunt in ND themselves, who in many cases are born and raised North Dakotans, would be out to "end deer hunting" or "Kill all the deer". Name one.

 

[WIbiggame]

Provide one reason to me, that the ND Game and Fish would be involved in or directly behind a conspiratorial plot to kill all the deer?

Take a breath. I said most "credible" with bredible in quotes to show sarcasm. Said most credible bc like @MNElkNut said i have heard every excuse about everything. Trust me people will come with some good ones. Have heard about planes dropping abortion pills for the doe, antics paying off the governor and or DNR, to our head DNR being a closet anti hunter. Trust me when you've heard the things I have wanting all the deer shot would sound the most credible out of all of them.

I also explained and believe answered your whole paragraph of questions after I said that. I said no state would want that as it would cripple ie bankrupt them. As hunting is the largest (with tourism) money maker for a lot of states.

We are on the same team here I was simply trying to let you know baiting is probably going to have 0 net effect on how quickly or slowly the disease spreads. Although like I said in my message to you I didn't realize people used 1000s of lbs of corn. We are limited to 5gals in counties where baiting is legal.

 

[brocksw]

Take a breath. I said most "credible" with bredible in quotes to show sarcasm. Said most credible bc like @MNElkNut said i have heard every excuse about everything. Trust me people will come with some good ones. Have heard about planes dropping abortion pills for the doe, antics paying off the governor and or DNR, to our head DNR being a closet anti hunter. Trust me when you've heard the things I have wanting all the deer shot would sound the most credible out of all of them.

I also explained and believe answered your whole paragraph of questions after I said that. I said no state would want that as it would cripple ie bankrupt them. As hunting is the largest (with tourism) money maker for a lot of states.

I'm just sayin...I'm asking anyone. No one can name a reason. Well, other than a government conspiracy....

 

[RealMuddyboots]

So CWD was first detected in 1967 in CO mule deer, 55 years years ago. We have no true answer to date. If any simple wave of the wand like baiting would eradicate CWD, it would have proven out long ago.

We really don't know the true chronological history of CWD. We "detected" CWD in 1967, has it been always here just never recognized? It could have arisen from sheep cervid interaction in early 1900's as well. No real timeline to follow, mostly conjecture before 1967.

CWD has been studied by the best of the best for at least the last 25 years without a viable cure(?), or any recommendations which I find disheartening.

Deer saliva, urine, etc are linked. Deer licking branches, deer social behavior of greeting, deer general breeding, mirrors what all animals do in wild. Tongues, saliva, urine, hormone secretions are all part of social science of animals. This is not going to change.

So if we know this basic social interaction concept, baiting as a risk is insignificant to daily life of a deer in their social order.

So what are the low apples to pick that are factually documented to reduce CWD impact? You would think by now western states or even Wisconsin would have a viable playbook, they don't.

Prions are protein particles without DNA or RBna which makes them impossible to "deactivate" within our level of science. Its not like we can "chlorinate" the water to kill a pathogen, this is radically different. We need to find out what causes a normal prion to become abnormal thus the ground zero of CWD. This is the bullseye of eradication of CWD, not baiting, urine product certification, etc.

I believe in science that is based upon supported facts. Dart board science is not only ineffective but prob hinders getting at true results. Doing something just to do something is half ass politics. Look at me doesn't get it done. We need a true scientific solution not a bunch of administrative bureaucratic controls that are nothing more than bandaid on an amputation.

I have to wonder if, we the hunter, has contributed to this far more than we realize. We want bigger bucks, scent industry grows. Deer farming grows, live deer transfers grows, genetic transfer grows et al. I wonder what if this, (if any) played in spread of CWD?

Wisconsin has played out a vast number if "solutions" but yet they still have CWD.
Let's see a true plan based upon factual documented science not drawn upon "assumptions", to eradicate CWD.

 

[Treeshark]

Hundreds of millions of dollars have been spent over decades “researching” CWD. It’s understandable why people are upset over the lack of progress.

 

[brocksw]

Hundreds of millions of dollars have been spent over decades “researching” CWD. It’s understandable why people are upset over the lack of progress.

Spare me. We just sent 90 billion to Ukraine, a few hundred million in CWD spending is a drop in the bucket. The CWD act is 420,000,000 over 6 years. That's .4% of the money we sent to Ukraine in 1 day. Hell, Trump sent more money to Israel in one year than we've spent in total on CWD since 1967.

After @Hunting Wife 's explanation of how previous money was spent and the flawed dispersal of that money to projects, I would think it would be in the best interest of you and everyone you know to be educating them about why this is important money to have and how it should be put to use, not justifying or excusing their frustration which is based on false pretenses and conspiracy theories.

 

[brocksw]

Wisconsin has played out a vast number if "solutions" but yet they still have CWD.
Let's see a true plan based upon factual documented science not drawn upon "assumptions", to eradicate CWD.

Well if the CWD research act passes on the omnibus spending package, which all signs point to that being the case, then we will finally have some significant funding to do so. Any outrage directed at wildlife professionals previously was more than likely misguided and not taking into account the big picture.

Like I stated in my lengthy post above, to many people haven't been paying attention to why things are the way they are. They just want to blame and look for people to point fingers at.

 

[Treeshark]

I would think it would be in the best interest of you and everyone you know to be educating them about why this is important money to have

We have start to seeing results.

I’m not sure how Ukraine or Israel are related to this discussion, and that’s my sign that it’s a good time for me to bow out of this one. Merry Christmas, stay warm!

 

[brocksw]

Im not sure how Ukraine or Israel are related to this discussion....

If you're giving your friends hundreds or thousands of times more money than you're allocating to CWD every year...how can a fiscal hawk such as yourself point to CWD money as being the problem in your budgetary issues? Let's say CWD spending is a billion dollars.

What's that come out to compared to our annual federal budget? Promise you it's less than 1 percent. But yeah, let's get upset about how we're spending too much money on CWD and haven't been seeing results.

 

[Treeshark]

I’m not upset about the money. I’m disappointed by the lack of results.

In the real world (ie non-governmental), results matter.

 

[SAJ-99]

I’m not upset about the money. I’m disappointed by the lack of results.

In the real world (ie non-governmental), results matter.

Knowledge is a result, even if we don't get to enjoy the benefits immediately. If we demanded absolute results (cures) from science, we would stop funding on hundreds of things, like cancer, diabetes, and Alzheimers.

 

[Hunting Wife]

We have start to seeing results.

I fully agree, and hope funding will help us move in the right direction. But we also have to be realistic about what we’re up against. There are numerous prion diseases, affecting a number of different species. Some have been recognized for over a century. Not a single one has a cure, even the three known to infect humans. Not a single one has been seen on the scale of CWD either, so perhaps there is more impetus now to figure it out than ever before? At least I hope so.

Given the above, I don’t think lack of a cure or better management of CWD points to any specific failings of wildlife agencies. We are lacking knowledge of prions at every level - immunology, molecular biology, epidemiology, therapeutics, diagnostics. Few of those expertise fall within the scope of what wildlife agencies are charged with or funded to manage.

Our (meaning humans in general- scientists, biologists, doctors, managers, you name it) understanding of prions is poor. Wildlife professionals don’t have an existing body of knowledge of other prion diseases to fall back on, because the understanding of the others are equally poor. Prion diseases as a whole are clearly not simple. Its going to be a very long game.

 

[RealMuddyboots]

I was clear when I stated "best of the best" have been researching CWD which is compliment not criticism. Prion diseases still do not have results after 100 years so this alone confirms extraordinary complexity of these diseases. Which comes back to original point that "baiting" is irrelevant to this disease. Animal social behavior will continue with or without bait on ground.

I know there is effort to coordinate research by States, Feds, academia, and NGO's but just how efficient is this use of resources? Is there a coordination of specific research? Or just a listing of what's being done at various groups?

 

[brocksw]

Which comes back to original point that "baiting" is irrelevant to this disease.

That is your opinion.

https://gf.nd.gov/sites/default/files/publications/cwd-management-plan-2023-2027.pdf

https://pubsaskdev.blob.core.windows.net/pubsask-prod/130286/CWD%252BSurveillance%252BProgram%252BResults%252B-%252B2021-22.pdf