Montana Resident MSG Free Lottery

Beignet said:
On a more serious note - my reading of this says you get one chance for a general deer & elk license. I don't think the OTC whitetail b tags or whatever get an additional entry.
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That’s how I read it too now, edited my post above.

Gotta save room to improve on this in the future!
 
rogerthat said:
So one chance for gen deer and an additional chance for gen elk?
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I doubt that… it sure sounded that way though. I’ll take every chance i can get, I’m on the bottom of the point pool 🤪

But which one of you fine fellers will give me some helpful tips when i draw one of dem tagz! 🤪🤪🤪
 
rogerthat said:
So one chance for gen deer and an additional chance for gen elk?
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That is how I interpreted "For each deer or elk general license purchased by a resident . . . the department shall award the resident one free chance in the lottery established by this section."

But now I am second guessing, as I read it again "For each deer or elk general license . . ."

@Beignet what do you think?

Does it really matter anyway? It's only one additional tag, regardless. While I would like to believe the quota where this tag will potentially be punch will be adjusted the subsequent year, I believe that is unlikely to happen. And even if it did, this seems to be an egregious grievance against those residents participating in the bonus point system regardless if quotas are adjusted or not (if they were adjusted then this is one less chance for those in the bonus point lottery and if they are not adjusted this is one less animal on the landscape for those who draw through the bonus point lottery).

Each year I keep thinking there is going to be a lawsuit against the State of Montana for mismanagement of the wildlife trust. This just adds to the list of possibilities I have in my head for such a lawsuit. Time will tell.
 
Big Sky Guy said:
Does it really matter anyway? It's only one additional tag, regardless. While I would like to believe the quota where this tag will potentially be punch will be adjusted the subsequent year, I believe that is unlikely to happen. And even if it did, this seems to be an egregious grievance against those residents participating in the bonus point system regardless if quotas are adjusted or not (if they were adjusted then this is one less chance for those in the bonus point lottery and if they are not adjusted this is one less animal on the landscape for those who draw through the bonus point lottery).

Each year I keep thinking there is going to be a lawsuit against the State of Montana for mismanagement of the wildlife trust. This just adds to the list of possibilities I have in my head for such a lawsuit. Time will tell.
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I'm fairly certain it is one chance that goes with either an elk, or a deer tag purchase. One chance per hunter. (I know you didn't ask me).

@MTelkHuntress's meme really does capture the stupidity of this though: there's a great chance someone will draw this tag who isn't even asking for it, and it is not going to do enough to move the needle on anything. It's not going to ruin quotas. It's one tag. The quotas are conservative with room for error anyways, they don't manage to that tight of a margin.
 
Elky Welky said:
The quotas are conservative with room for error anyways, they don't manage to that tight of a margin.
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Maybe... but there are some units where it's tight as hell.

We have a sheep unit in the Bitterroot where our bio asked that we stop offering ram tags. The commission over-ruled her, and kept one tag for this unit. Now, theoretically there could be up to 4 rams killed in a unit where the bio asked that none be.

It's likely splitting hairs, and a mutton loving lion could affect things way more, bit it's still not a great outcome.
 
Randy11 said:
Maybe... but there are some units where it's tight as hell.

We have a sheep unit in the Bitterroot where our bio asked that we stop offering ram tags. The commission over-ruled her, and kept one tag for this unit. Now, theoretically there could be up to 4 rams killed in a unit where the bio asked that none be.

It's likely splitting hairs, and a mutton loving lion could affect things way more, bit it's still not a great outcome.
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Only once every three years, and only if that person and all the other folks who draw supertags choose to hunt the Bitterroot (someone drawing a sheep tag is far more likely headed to the breaks).

Theoretically, maybe, but realistically? I’m just not too worried about it.
 
AvidIndoorsman said:
No worries,

next session there will be a bill that creates...

5th Generation Montana Heritage Sheep tags, one free chance every year just by being a 5th Generation Montanan

My kid hates it here tags, one free chance at a sheep tag for native Montana kids who left to live in other states

Forever better than you tags, one free chance at goat if you pissed in a tributary of the Missouri before the age of 5
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Please add: i live in a bordering state and do all my shopping in MT tag.
 
Elky Welky said:
Only once every three years, and only if that person and all the other folks who draw supertags choose to hunt the Bitterroot (someone drawing a sheep tag is far more likely headed to the breaks).

Theoretically, maybe, but realistically? I’m just not too worried about it.
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Even one of the Breaks districts only has 5 permits this year. In that instance, even just one extra permit is fairly significant.
 
Is the point to make sure at least one Supertag goes to a Resident? Something else?
 
bigsky2 said:
Even one of the Breaks districts only has 5 permits this year. In that instance, even just one extra permit is fairly significant.
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If exceeding the quota of 2 lamb-rams by well north of 100% in an unlimited unit is biologically insignificant, then I’m sure going over quota by 20% isn’t that big of a deal.
 
Elky Welky said:
The quotas are conservative with room for error anyways, they don't manage to that tight of a of margin.
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I’m with Randy on this one. I know of a goat unit that’s runs about 40 miles of some of the roughest goat country in the state and some of the most spectacular. There is one goat permit. Killing 2 goats in that unit would be significant.

There is a moose unit I know that had 2 permits for it. Last years draw screw up by FWP they gave out 3. I know one of the 3 and he did not fill the permit and only saw 4 moose. So ya some units are tight.
 
Labman said:
If exceeding the quota of 2 lamb-rams by well north of 100% in an unlimited unit is biologically insignificant, then I’m sure going over quota by 20% isn’t that big of a deal.
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That’s weighing the wrong metric: the quota against the quota. Again, the quota is weighted conservatively against the entire population, and those quotas are managed for trophy potential. If the quota was more liberal, then the margin of error would be dangerous with regards to other natural factors: predators, drought, disease, etc. 1 animal every three years (maybe, assuming only one unit is being hunted, also unlikely) just isn’t enough to make a difference.

@tjones if someone drew a statewide moose supertag, do you think they would spend that hunt in a place without moose?

(Don't get me wrong everyone, I think this is incredibly dumb. But I also think it is much ado about nothing).
 
Elky Welky said:
@tjones if someone drew a statewide moose supertag, do you think they would spend that hunt in a place without moose?

(Don't get me wrong everyone, I think this is incredibly dumb. But I also think it is much ado about nothing).
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It’s one of the lowest draw odds in the state for moose so ya a whole bunch of folks think it’s a good moose unit.


And remember even for an attorney it’s ok to be wrong. :)
 
mtmuley said:
How do you know they wouldn't hunt that unit? Maybe they want the "experience" of that particular area. This is a stupid thing. mtmuley
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Yup. It goes both ways. But in all the hypotheticals here we are assuming the worst case scenario based on a .000007 chance of drawing. Multiply that by every other factor (someone going where the populations are more sustainable, grandma pulls the tag and only wants to shoot an ewe or a cow, etc., someone pulls the tag and isn't a passionate hunter, isn't in shape, is only a road hunter, etc.) and this just keeps whittling down to nothing.

And @tjones I am wrong all the time, I have accepted that haha. I enjoy being a devil's advocate, much to my own detriment (particularly with the HT crowd). And if I'm wrong here, I'll definitely eat my words. But I just don't think this is a big deal. It's stupid and didn't need to become a law, but I'll be surprised if it has any effect anywhere. You're welcome to say "I told you so" when there are no more big rams in the breaks and it is directly caused because the tag holder shot one once in a three-year cycle. When that day comes, I'll tip my hat to you.
 
Elky Welky said:
Yup. It goes both ways. But in all the hypotheticals here we are assuming the worst case scenario based on a .000007 chance of drawing. Multiply that by every other factor (someone going where the populations are more sustainable, grandma pulls the tag and only wants to shoot an ewe or a cow, etc., someone pulls the tag and isn't a passionate hunter, isn't in shape, is only a road hunter, etc.) and this just keeps whittling down to nothing.

And @tjones I am wrong all the time, I have accepted that haha. I enjoy being a devil's advocate, much to my own detriment (particularly with the HT crowd). And if I'm wrong here, I'll definitely eat my words. But I just don't think this is a big deal. It's stupid and didn't need to become a law, but I'll be surprised if it has any effect anywhere. You're welcome to say "I told you so" when there are no more big rams in the breaks and it is directly caused because the tag holder shot one once in a three-year cycle. When that day comes, I'll tip my hat to you.
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Opportunity. mtmuley
 
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