Montana FWP Seeking Applicants For Elk Advisory Group

[DFS]

I think one would see a huge improvement if we cut NR tags by 2/3rds or better and for a variety of reasons.
And I will say it again. The days of Nr's hunting all over the west is coming to a close.

I agree. If Montana wants to keep as many hunters as possible in the field it would come along with season structure changes and pick your weapon season etc. This could keep a lot of people hunting, just not for 12 weeks.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Let's hold off on the nut kickin' of BHA with regard to MT elk.
View attachment 229573
You're certainly not going to read that in Bugle.

I cant read that text, do you have a link to this?

BHA's post saying "Increasing access to inaccessible elk (is the solution)" was like nails on a chalkboard to me. It didn't say manage the elk to be more accessible or manage them where they are accessible. Given BHAs stance on many things, it's pretty easy to interpret that how UPOM and chronies would portray it. I'd like to know how they recommend increasing access to inaccessible elk without being either punitive or basically paying landowners, especially from the freakin elk advisory group! It came across like a lot of the public testimony has over the past year - people feeling entitled to the elk on private lands.

Fighting against the GG/Hank/UPOM/MOGA etc direction that hurts the avg public land hunter as they strive for their selfish ends is one thing but the push to incentivize public access to private elk only further motivates the BS and reeks of the commie entitlement that BHA gets smeared with.

Maybe BHA didn't mean it that way but it was a real shitty choice of words if they didn't.

 

[Irrelevant]

I cant read that text, do you have a link to this?

BHA's post saying "Increasing access to inaccessible elk (is the solution)" was like nails on a chalkboard to me. It didn't say manage the elk to be more accessible or manage them where they are accessible. Given BHAs stance on many things, it's pretty easy to interpret that how UPOM and chronies would portray it. I'd like to know how they recommend increasing access to inaccessible elk without being either punitive or basically paying landowners, especially from the freakin elk advisory group! It came across like a lot of the public testimony has over the past year - people feeling entitled to the elk on private lands.

Fighting against the GG/Hank/UPOM/MOGA etc direction that hurts the avg public land hunter as they strive for their selfish ends is one thing but the push to incentivize public access to private elk only further motivates the BS and reeks of the commie entitlement that BHA gets smeared with.

Maybe BHA didn't mean it that way but it was a real shitty choice of words if they didn't.

If you're a BHA member it's available within your portal for the Backcountry Journal. Otherwise no, it'll be behind a membership paywall.

 

[DFS]

IMO, archery seasons need a significant haircut. The generous season predates the dawn of compound bows. Using a bow with a mechanical release, with over 50% let off from the draw weight, after ranging the elk to an exact yardage is so far from using a primitive weapon. The elk should be left alone during the peak of the rut.

It won't happen, the status quo is well entrenched. The makers of archery equipment exist to sell equipment. The impetus is to make the equipment ever easier to use.

I agree, and as much as you are right we use high powered rifles to hunt mule deer for the entire rut with a general tag. Mule deer should be left alone in the peak of the rut. Not to hijack an elk thread but think about that. Hopefully I didn’t just give Hank an idea.

 

[406dn]

I agree, and as much as you are right we use high powered rifles to hunt mule deer for the entire rut with a general tag. Mule deer should be left alone in the peak of the rut. Not to hijack an elk thread but think about that. Hopefully I didn’t just give Hank an idea.

That's also something that should change.

 

[xcskier_hunter]

As a young MT (and Western) NR hunter that's read many of these types of threads over the years, I figured I'd chime in with some of my thoughts.

It seems like a lot of people propose limiting tags to improve elk hunting, which will likely help but I'd rather explore ideas that improve Montana elk hunting without reducing opportunity.

For example, when I scout for elk on OnX I see a spider web of Forest Service roads in practically every major mountain range in SW MT. As a result, I end up picking many potential hunting spots based on how far away the spot is from the nearest Forest Service road. Maybe it's impossible to do this but I'd like to see a majority of these roads be limited to non-motorized travel only during fall hunting seasons (and that means no E-bikes too). I think similar measures could be taken on BLM land although that may be more difficult to manage.

That's just one idea but in general I think we need to start looking at ways we can reduce hunter success to enable the same (or even increased) opportunity. I don't think we can feasibly ban things like GPS but where can limit things (trail cameras, motorized travel, rifle scope technology, bow technology, etc.) I think we should.

 

[golfer]

As a young MT (and Western) NR hunter that's read many of these types of threads over the years, I figured I'd chime in with some of my thoughts.

It seems like a lot of people propose limiting tags to improve elk hunting, which will likely help but I'd rather explore ideas that improve Montana elk hunting without reducing opportunity.

For example, when I scout for elk on OnX I see a spider web of Forest Service roads in practically every major mountain range in SW MT. As a result, I end up picking many potential hunting spots based on how far away the spot is from the nearest Forest Service road. Maybe it's impossible to do this but I'd like to see a majority of these roads be limited to non-motorized travel only during fall hunting seasons (and that means no E-bikes too). I think similar measures could be taken on BLM land although that may be more difficult to manage.

That's just one idea but in general I think we need to start looking at ways we can reduce hunter success to enable the same (or even increased) opportunity. I don't think we can feasibly ban things like GPS but where can limit things (trail cameras, motorized travel, rifle scope technology, bow technology, etc.) I think we should.

So how would you sell the idea of closing forest service roads during hunting season to the federal government?

 

[xcskier_hunter]

So how would you sell the idea of closing forest service roads during hunting season to the federal government?

Cost savings. I'm sure the roads get trashed during hunting season anyways. Plus they're not closed completely, just closed to motorized travel.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Cost savings. I'm sure the roads get trashed during hunting season anyways. Plus they're not closed completely, just closed to motorized travel.

There are already a lot of travel restricted roads during rifle season to give security to wildlife during general season.

A lot of roads have motorized restrictions from October 15 - June 15.

 

[xcskier_hunter]

There are already a lot of travel restricted roads during rifle season to give security to wildlife during general season.

A lot of roads have motorized restrictions from October 15 - June 15.

So it would not be such a leap to change the closing date on some roads from Oct 15 to Sept 1, especially with how much more popular archery elk hunting has gotten in recent years.

 

[DFS]

So it would not be such a leap to change the closing date on some roads from Oct 15 to Sept 1, especially with how much more popular archery elk hunting has gotten in recent years.

I’m not sure it would help as much as you think. And you are only helping archery hunters. Everyone’s hunting needs to get better. You have to limit opportunity to make that happen. Tough pill to swallow for sure. But that’s what was created and that’s what we have to deal with.

 

[runningmt]

I don’t like the way this thread is heading…..MORE hunters with less success?

I’m sure I don’t have the numbers right, but MT public land elk hunters enjoy something like 5% success rate currently…..which is abysmal

 

[xcskier_hunter]

I’m not sure it would help as much as you think. And you are only helping archery hunters. Everyone’s hunting needs to get better. You have to limit opportunity to make that happen. Tough pill to swallow for sure. But that’s what was created and that’s what we have to deal with.

I partly threw that idea out there as just one example of the type of thing I'd like to see looked at before cutting opportunity. However, I do actually think this type of change could make a pretty big difference in places that have significant motorized access currently. And I think it would benefit rifle hunters too as less elk would get pushed from public to private before rifle season. I've heard plenty of rifle hunters blame bowhunters for pushing game off public before the start of rifle season and I'm sure there is quite a bit of truth to that.

 

[golfer]

So it would not be such a leap to change the closing date on some roads from Oct 15 to Sept 1, especially with how much more popular archery elk hunting has gotten in recent years.

So you want to close the roads Sept. 1, just think of the uproar that would cause with the Labor Day weekend campers.

 

[Rack Daniels]

I really hope if y’all get your way, the average Joe Shmoe; barely scraping by, resident of MT can still survive off game meat every year without having to spend thousands applying in multiple states, travel to those states and succeed and transport the meat back to actually fill a freezer and live self sustainably… good luck to all of you fighting for game management..

 

[xcskier_hunter]

So you want to close the roads Sept. 1, just think of the uproar that would cause with the Labor Day weekend campers.

Honestly, if the start date of elk season was the Tuesday or Wednesday after Labor day and that was the start date for the road closures that would also be fine with me too. Either way I'm sure the uproar over tag cuts would be on par with the uproar over potential road closures.

 

[golfer]

I really hope if y’all get your way, the average Joe Shmoe; barely scraping by, resident of MT can still survive off game meat every year without having to spend thousands applying in multiple states, travel to those states and succeed and transport the meat back to actually fill a freezer and live self sustainably… good luck to all of you fighting for game management..

I'd be willing to bet there are more of the "average Joe Shmoe" pushing for changes than you think. Montana is growing get used to it, at some point something has to change or there won't be anything left for those out there to even pursue.

 

[DFS]

I really hope if y’all get your way, the average Joe Shmoe; barely scraping by, resident of MT can still survive off game meat every year without having to spend thousands applying in multiple states, travel to those states and succeed and transport the meat back to actually fill a freezer and live self sustainably… good luck to all of you fighting for game management..

Your hunting would actually be better by limiting opportunity.

 

[Rack Daniels]

#LACEEMUP

 

[Dr. samuel_284Win]

I partly threw that idea out there as just one example of the type of thing I'd like to see looked at before cutting opportunity. However, I do actually think this type of change could make a pretty big difference in places that have significant motorized access currently. And I think it would benefit rifle hunters too as less elk would get pushed from public to private before rifle season. I've heard plenty of rifle hunters blame bowhunters for pushing game off public before the start of rifle season and I'm sure there is quite a bit of truth to that.

Moving FS road closures to Sept 1 might complicate grazing allotments and ranchers trying to ship cattle in the fall. Probably don't need to make things more complicated for ranchers and their presence on the landscape can benefit us hunters (and our wild food) as controlled grazing by cattle can benefit elk grounds if applied correctly and in the right intensity.