Montana Antelope area 701
- Thread starter The Hedgehog
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Schaaf
Well-known member
Been too long since I've been to the Jersey.
I am sure I already know the answer but has there been any push from groups to try to divide the Region 7 tags up into sub units for better management?
I am sure I already know the answer but has there been any push from groups to try to divide the Region 7 tags up into sub units for better management?
Nemont
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Fire_9
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The fifth one down must have bee one tough goat. I only see one arrow left lol. Your pictures never cease to amaze me Greenhorn. Well done.
TRS_Montana
Well-known member
Awesome bucks, greenhorn. I love the one with your boy.
I have a friend who lives in Broadus and grew up with some land. Their annual pronghorn hunt was a long standing family tradition. He says he won't waste the gas to go back anymore for the opener.
I realize that there are fluctuations in everything, but the harvest data greenhorn posted is indicative of something more than ups and downs. It's sad that a bum on the internet can go and get that data and paint such an obvious picture, while there are people (whose salaries are paid by our taxes) who spend 40 hours a week on this stuff and are either too afraid to do what needs to be done, or not smart enough to figure it out.
I have a friend who lives in Broadus and grew up with some land. Their annual pronghorn hunt was a long standing family tradition. He says he won't waste the gas to go back anymore for the opener.
I realize that there are fluctuations in everything, but the harvest data greenhorn posted is indicative of something more than ups and downs. It's sad that a bum on the internet can go and get that data and paint such an obvious picture, while there are people (whose salaries are paid by our taxes) who spend 40 hours a week on this stuff and are either too afraid to do what needs to be done, or not smart enough to figure it out.
The Hedgehog
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The "management" explained here is worthy of criminal negligence charges being filed.
NKQualtieri
Active member
I'm curious as to the FWP side of the argument--would they not want the population to get back to those numbers because of carrying capacity & issues with disease outbreak? Why would they still issue 5000 tags for the entire region if there wasn't a healthy population, though it might not be the kind of population that existed 8 or 10 yrs ago?
And I guess the real question is would you guys still go hunt there if you drew a tag? Antelope harvest numbers aren't astronomically high anywhere in MT, but they're still the highest in Region 7.
And thanks for the link, Poke
And I guess the real question is would you guys still go hunt there if you drew a tag? Antelope harvest numbers aren't astronomically high anywhere in MT, but they're still the highest in Region 7.
And thanks for the link, Poke
Topgun 30-06
Active member
My question is probably stupid, but what is the reason the FWP even has those unit breakdowns if they just issue tags that are good for the entire Region 7 area? It makes no sense to me when they could easily do as Wyoming does and manage the animals in each unit as they go up and down in numbers due to weather, disease, etc.
The Hedgehog
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Oh, it's a big region and there's some herds of antelope certainly scattered around. I saw 2 really good bucks last fall in region 7. 5000, that sounds like a good number. Maybe some logic is available here but don't hold your breath..
http://fwp.mt.gov/regions/r7/directory.html?lastName=&fwpRegion=7&fwpDivision=ANY
If you're planning a hunt in 701, in that green circle, leave the antelope permit at home, take lots of .22 ammo and a big cooler of beer. A good time could be had.
Topgun 30-06
Active member
Looks like there are more FWP employees in 7 than antelope!
NKQualtieri
Active member
Thanks, GH. I'll be heading to the refuge prob once this summer just for kicks then again this fall with gun in hand whether I draw the antelope tag or not and I'll let you guys know what I see. I'll leave the green circle be this time around.
antlerradar
Well-known member
Greenhorn would be considered a success by FWP
This is classic " Law of diminishing returns" management. This was explained to me by FWP personnel back when I was on the region 7 CAC. I will try to give a Cliff Notes version of their explanation.
FWP likes to have large units so that if game populations decline in part of the unit due to over hunting or natural reasons hunters have the flexibility to move to a different area where game populations are better. Hunters are self regulating. This lets naturally game populations recover in the places that are low.
There are some positives to the management philosophy and FWP was quick to promote them.
Gives hunters more flexibility and opportunity.
Less work for biologists
Fewer units is better for law enforcement as there is fewer boundary issues
I hate the management philosophy. This is why
Only works if there is good access to the entire unit. In units where a good portions are off limits to most hunters the accessible parts of the unit keep getting pounded and game populations never recover.
Not all hunters switch areas when game populations are low in there preferred hunting spot. Greenhorn you are the model hunter.
Some quite hunting. That would be me.
Some keep hunting the same spot even if game is hard to find.
Some take management in to there own hands and lease hunting land
Many landowners want to have a healthy game population. If game populations take a hit these landowners will react much quicker than hunters will self regulate. They will start to restrict access and once access is restricted it doesn't come back.
The law of diminishing returns may have worked back in the 70's and early 80's but it is broken now and needs to be abandoned now.
This is classic " Law of diminishing returns" management. This was explained to me by FWP personnel back when I was on the region 7 CAC. I will try to give a Cliff Notes version of their explanation.
FWP likes to have large units so that if game populations decline in part of the unit due to over hunting or natural reasons hunters have the flexibility to move to a different area where game populations are better. Hunters are self regulating. This lets naturally game populations recover in the places that are low.
There are some positives to the management philosophy and FWP was quick to promote them.
Gives hunters more flexibility and opportunity.
Less work for biologists
Fewer units is better for law enforcement as there is fewer boundary issues
I hate the management philosophy. This is why
Only works if there is good access to the entire unit. In units where a good portions are off limits to most hunters the accessible parts of the unit keep getting pounded and game populations never recover.
Not all hunters switch areas when game populations are low in there preferred hunting spot. Greenhorn you are the model hunter.
Some quite hunting. That would be me.
Some keep hunting the same spot even if game is hard to find.
Some take management in to there own hands and lease hunting land
Many landowners want to have a healthy game population. If game populations take a hit these landowners will react much quicker than hunters will self regulate. They will start to restrict access and once access is restricted it doesn't come back.
The law of diminishing returns may have worked back in the 70's and early 80's but it is broken now and needs to be abandoned now.
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MTGunner
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That area encompasses the Big Porcupine Ranch for which we hunted 2 yrs. back. We saw but one small herd of antelope at a great distance. This was opening morning of the season. We stalked this small herd to find they were on another ranch and had to withdraw and find out who owned the ranch. It was private and posted. That is not to say that the numbers have not increased but slowly. Take a good spotting scope, research they area and talk to FW&P in miles City. You may have to spend lots of time glassing but should find a suitable goat to harvest. BTW, it is not a race as I have experienced in the past as too many nitwits out to score and little sportsmanship displayed. I am fortunate to be retired and have the time to spend allowing the nitwits to run amok during the first few days. After such, I hunt the 'lopers with little or no competition. Most of the antelope I have harvested have been within 200 yds. One was at 377 yds. laser ranged for which I had more than adequate time to take a good solid hold and dump him with my XP-100R in 260AI. He was the longest shot I have taken and do not necessarily ascribe to long range shooting. The shot I took was the only one available to do so. He was a very good goat. Now, as I am older and need time to settle, I try to hunt smarter rather than harder. I do not hunt does and fawns any longer, even though they do make for great table fare. In the past, and perhaps in the future I have passed on shots that were precarious at best. Have been skunked and possibly will be in the future. Good 'nuff! Hunt hard! Kill swiftly! Offer no excuses! MTG
The Hedgehog
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If you're hunting in the Porcupine drainages and you find an antelope to kill please pat yourself on the back for helping them become extinct in what used to be the best place in MT for antelope.
MTGunner
Well-known member
The irony of it is that there were many antelope in past decades only to disappear, for the most part, after some difficult winters and blue tongue. I hunted there 2 yrs. back to find few antelope, very few. This was the 1st week with many, too many, sports running around like it was some kind of competition. I went home and returned 3rd week. There was virtually no one, no hunters mind you, to be seen. I ended up taking a decent buck north, farther north of the Big Porcupine area. This was on BLM land. BTW, I actually had to hunt him and crawl like a lizard on my old belly. Gettin' more difficult to do this these days. I was fortunate enough to take a decent buck that provided great meals for better than 6 months. I am the only one fond of 'loper in this household. Good 'nuff! Having said this, there are fair areas in the 700 zone and those that require lots of glassing. In reality I do enjoy all aspects of the hunt before, during and after. I have horns all over the house from 30 yrs. of chasing 'lopers. Memories to cherish. Forsythe used to be the place to stay for 'loper hunters. The area was good in past decades. It has gone through a bad transition and the numbers indeed are down. I would say a person will have to hunt long and hard to find a trophy buck. MTG
