Ithacas "MAN"

[FEW]

Hey Ithica you still think dipshit Dean is going to be the next president? I am more confident than ever that he is a complete loser.

I am voting for Bush and so is everyone else I know, you still have time to change your mind if you pull your head out of your ass pretty quick...

 

[Washington Hunter]

Well one thing we know for sure...cjcj isn't voting for Bush! I think I may just vote for NOBODY.

 

[Ithaca 37]

FEW, "I am voting for Bush and so is everyone else I know". He's the worst enemy any hunter or fisherman can have. You guys must be crazy, unless you don't care about the future of hunting and fishing.

Dean's from my home state of Vermont, so I gotta stick with him for awhile. Suppose he wins big in NH?

 

[feclnogn]

Dean is now the laughing stock of the dems. He's toast. Even the dems are saying he is toast. Thats to bad cuz I was pulling for him to win. Bush would have mopped the floor with the guy. Now it might be a real race in November.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Those predictions will be fun to look back on in eleven months.

 

[feclnogn]

Here is my prediction for the dem nominee,

Edwards
Clark
Kerry
Dean

Deans gone after Feb 3
kerry is gone after the the big southern primary push.

I think it will come down to Edwards and Clark, and I think Edwards will get it.

But then again maybe Dean can recover. That would be sweet.

Begin Rant

On a side note after watching the dems response to the SOTU address I gotta say that Tom Daschle just wants to make me puke. How in the hell can a state like SD put such a whinny little pussy into public office.

s.fecl

 

[JoseCuervo]

I think you need to keep an eye on Hillary. If Bush continues to look beatable, and keeps getting American kids killed in Iraq, the economy continues to lose jobs, then you might see the Democratic machine pull Hillary into the mix.

If Bush looks strong by some how recovering from his current quagmire(s), then Hillary will save her run until 2008, and the Demos will offer up somebody else.

Keep in mind, in '92, Bush-Sr. looked unbeatable, so many Democrats stayed on the sideline, and a unknown Governor from some in-bred, cousin-marrying State stole the nomination and ended up owning the White House for 8 years.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Hillary??? If this country comes to that, we should all visit Dr. Kevorkian. If that's what a democratic machine produces, don't put any gas into it for God's sake.

 

[Ithaca 37]

I'm anxious to vote for NY Atty General Elliot Spitzer for president.

http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_comment/comment-reynolds010303.asp

 

[dgibson]

Hillary's out until at least '08. Then there will be no strong Republican incumbent or front runner to speak of (I think we all agree Cheney wouldn't last long), and the Democrats have time to tailor their campaign to get away from the massive infighting and public bickering that's going on this year. She won't take the field until she's got the maximum chance of victory, and this year ain't it.

God willing, when she DOES enter the race it will be her last attempt at national politics.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Here's who to vote for in 2008. This article is in today's NY Times.

January 21, 2004

New Yorkers of All Incomes Find an Ally in Spitzer
By STEVEN GREENHOUSE

Katerina Papastathis was furious. The restaurant where
she worked as a waitress was not paying her a cent in
wages, making her rely solely on tips.

She knew that her employer, the Elias Corner
Restaurant for Fish in Queens, was violating minimum
wage laws, so she filed a complaint with the New York
State Department of Labor. Five months passed, and she
heard nothing.

So she contacted the state attorney general, Eliot L.
Spitzer.

Soon, his office subpoenaed the restaurant's records.
It had investigators try to interview workers at Elias
Corner. And when the restaurant's owner began
pressuring workers to sign affidavits saying they were
being paid the minimum wage, Mr. Spitzer subpoenaed
the workers to testify under oath that, in fact, they
were not being paid. Last June, he announced that
Elias Corner had agreed to pay $460,000 for
minimum-wage violations.

Ms. Papastathis, an immigrant from Greece, could not
be happier: "It's so beautiful, what he did."

Mr. Spitzer has made huge headlines for his fights on
behalf of Wall Street investors. But he has also been
battling for a less visible, less clamorous group: New
York's low-wage workers. Last month, Mr. Spitzer
announced that the Gristede's supermarket chain would
pay $3.2 million to hundreds of African immigrants who
often received $2 an hour delivering its groceries,
far less than the $5.15 minimum wage.

He stunned a Long Island construction contractor - and
other employers who use day laborers - by having him
arrested at his home in front of reporters after
accusing him of not paying four immigrant day laborers
a month's wages.

After he charged three Korean greengrocers with paying
Mexican immigrants just $3 an hour for their 80-hour
work weeks, Mr. Spitzer persuaded 200 others to agree
to pay the minimum wage and overtime and to
inspections by outside monitors.

"We went to different unions and different public
officials for help, but when we went to Eliot Spitzer,
we encountered our best ally," said Jerry Dominguez,
an official from Casa de Mexico, an advocacy group,
who took up the cause of greengrocer workers. "He's
doing a lot for workers, more than some union leaders
are."

Mr. Spitzer admits a warm spot for these enforcement
efforts. "They're my favorite cases," he said in an
interview last week. "People say, 'The Wall Street
cases must be your favorite cases,' because they
generate great interest, given there are 100 million
investors who feel touched by the mutual fund piece of
what you're doing. But the greatest need, I thought,
was to help low-wage workers who are least able to
protect themselves."

The attorney general's labor bureau, created in its
current form in the early 1980's, spent its first 15
years mainly handling modest cases referred by the
state Labor Department and defending lawsuits brought
against the state. Patricia Smith, the chief of the
labor bureau, said it was only in the past few years
that the department had been flexing its muscles,
bringing 89 of its own cases in 2003, up from 10 a
decade earlier.

Ms. Smith, who began working in the office in 1987,
said that Mr. Spitzer had urged the nine-lawyer labor
bureau to take the offensive.

"It's the first time that we actually had a mandate to
do labor cases on our own," she said. "Eliot told us
to think about what can be done to help working people
and to try to do it."

As a Democratic politician and prosecutor, Mr. Spitzer
can bring attention-grabbing cases, as he weighs
whether to run for governor. And there are undeniable
political benefits to his fight for workers.
Chinese-American and Hispanic-American groups have
hailed him, and so has organized labor. Denis Hughes,
president of the New York State A.F.L.-C.I.O., said,
"He has redefined what attorney generals do - not only
in our state but throughout the country - in enforcing
worker rights."

Mr. Spitzer denied that there was any political
calculation to his efforts. Most of the immigrant
workers his office helps, he was quick to note, do not
even vote.

"I usually face this question with the Wall Street
cases: 'You just did this for the political upside,' "
he said. "If I helped an old lady across the street,
they'd say I'm doing it for political benefit. Every
one of these labor cases has been a lightning rod."

When Mr. Spitzer went to bat for day laborers, some
suburbanites asked why he was defending a group they
viewed as a blight on their community. When he accused
Korean greengrocers of violating wage laws, they
accused him of discrimination.

But Mr. Spitzer has been adept at winning over some of
his targets. In his tense dealings with the Korean
greengrocers, he agreed to drop his threat to sue for
millions of dollars in back pay so long as they agreed
to a new code of conduct.

Samuel Ahne, a lawyer for the Korean-American
Association of Greater New York, praised Mr. Spitzer
for not putting greengrocers out of business. "He's
been eager to work with the employer," he said.

But there are business executives who view Mr.
Spitzer's tactics as unfair. "He's too aggressive,"
said John A. Catsimatidis, chairman of Gristede's.
"When you're negotiating with the government and they
tell you, 'We'll give you six months if you plead to
this, but if you go to trial, you'll get 20 years,'
everybody ends up pleading."

Ismail Ngendakumana, a Gristede's deliveryman who is
from Burundi, welcomed Mr. Spitzer's help, saying many
coworkers would use their back pay - some will receive
more than $20,000 - to go to college or bring their
families to America.

"A lot of workers are very happy," said Mr.
Ngendakumana, who often earned $175 a week, including
tips, working 70-hour weeks. "I knew one day we would
have justice."

Mr. Catsimatidis insisted that Gristede's did nothing
wrong with its deliverymen; he said a subcontractor
was responsible. And he said that Mr. Spitzer
strong-armed Gristede's into paying the $3.2 million.

"The people he's helping are illegal aliens," Mr.
Catsimatidis said. "They haven't paid a dollar to the
I.R.S. in their lives."

Mr. Spitzer said he was obliged to help illegal
immigrant workers. "On workers rights, New York State
law does not distinguish between illegal immigrants
and anybody else," he said. "We cannot permit
employers who break the law to eat away at the rights
of all workers by hiring illegal workers and paying
them subminimum wages and getting an unfair
competitive advantage."

Several of New York's top Republicans declined to
comment on the attorney general's efforts to help
immigrant workers. Republicans nationwide are seeking
to woo Hispanic voters, evidenced by President Bush's
recent proposal to grant three-year visas to some
illegal immigrant workers.

One industry group that might have been expected to
criticize Mr. Spitzer, the New York State Restaurant
Association, welcomed his work. Rick Sampson, the
group's chief executive, said: "He's going into some
places that aren't paying overtime or the minimum
wage. Those places give the whole industry a black
eye."

Some labor advocates voice surprise that Mr. Spitzer,
the son of a wealthy real estate developer, has taken
up the cause of immigrant workers. But he says he has
not forgotten where he comes from.

"My grandparents were immigrants," he said. "My Dad
grew up on Avenue B and Fourth Street in a walkup
apartment without hot water. My father was a printer -
he had a little printing press in the basement of
their tenement. He did a lot of printing for
synagogues. There is not a long lineage of enormous
comfort in my family."

Mr. Spitzer has used muscular tactics to get low-wage
employers to pay attention.

Three years ago, his office won the first criminal
conviction of a sweatshop owner in a decade - the
employer had forced Chinese immigrants to work
100-hour weeks and had not paid them for months. His
office won the first felony conviction of a
restaurant, Jade Palace, in Sunset Park for violating
overtime laws.

Xue Xian Lin, a Jade Palace worker, said she was
coerced into working 70 hours a week without overtime.
"The state attorney general helped not just me," she
said, "but many other workers, because so many other
employers saw what happened and now won't break the
law."

The attorney general's office sometimes protects
higher-wage workers, too. It went after TSI Broadband,
an Internet company, getting it to pay $250,000 in
back wages. It had persuaded 52 employees to work for
several weeks without pay until a new contract came
through, but that contract - and the promised pay-
never materialized.

Rangel Lucero worked for a kosher food factory in
Williamsburg, Tuv Taam, often receiving just $300 for
his 80-hour weeks. He said he was delighted when Mr.
Spitzer announced last October that Tuv Taam had
agreed to pay $1 million for minimum wage and overtime
violations.

"We were really surprised," Mr. Lucero said. "We never
imagined they would pressure the company so strongly."

 

[Calif. Hunter]

Does he care whether they are legal immigrants or not? If not, he is really encouraging illegal immigration by paying them even more money than they would make "back home." Legal immigrants should, of course, have protection under our laws and should be entitled to the minimum wage.

 

[Ithaca 37]

His job is to enforce the law. That's what he's doing.

"Mr. Spitzer said he was obliged to help illegal immigrant workers. "On workers rights, New York State law does not distinguish between illegal immigrants
and anybody else," he said. "We cannot permit employers who break the law to eat away at the rights of all workers by hiring illegal workers and paying them subminimum wages and getting an unfair
competitive advantage."

 

[Calif. Hunter]

But he is not enforcing the immigration laws? (Selective enforcement? Headline grabbing?)

 

[Ithaca 37]

Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (BICE). BICE is responsible for investigation and enforcement regarding violations of the Immigration and Nationality Act, related federal statutes, detention and removal, customs, and other interior matters. For example, BICE will be responsible for conducting work site raids, imposing employer sanctions, and detaining and removing undocumented employees. More details can be found at www.bice.immigration.gov.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't think the state atty. gen. was responsible for enforcing federal laws.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-21-2004 20:11: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>

 

[BHR]

Ithaca,

Do you support Dean because he is from Vermont, or because you share the same ideology (as well as the same shrink). I can understand the later, but reason you give makes no sense. Help me out here.

Paul

 

[Ithaca 37]

Because I'm from Vermont and it's about time we had another Vermonter for Pres.. Besides, my mother says he was a good governor. She's a real conservative Republican.

 

[Calif. Hunter]

I believe all law enforcement officers and officers of the court are sworn to uphold and enforce the law of the state and nation, but that may not be reality in these politically correct times. It may just be words they recite that have no meaning.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Well, try to be practical about it. Do you expect the state atty. general to make sure all federal and state laws are enforced? I think any one of the state atty generals would have enough with just the laws of his own state. I think the US Atty. General would have primary responsibility for the federal laws.

So Eliot went after the restaurant owners who were breaking the law in NY. Why don't you make sure the CA Atty General is watching the CA restaurant owners instead of trying to find fault with Eliot?

The guy is doing a great job. Much better than any other atty general in the country. He's had the guts to go after Wall Street when the Security and Exchange Commission was ignoring what they were doing in the mutual funds. Where was every other state atty general on that one? Where were all the Republican atty generals when we were all getting overcharged by the big mutual funds?

You must not know anything about Eliot if you're critical of him. Read this and then tell me who's doing a better job!

http://www.time.com/time/personoftheyear/2002/poyspitzer.html

 

[Calif. Hunter]

Because I'm not on here trying to say that the California Attorney General should be President. Certainly, you of all people, Ithaca, should know about attacking statements other people make, particularly when they are over simplistic.

The LAPD did raise a stink when they were prohibited from calling in the INS when they found illegal immigrants. But it was not politically correct, so they had to stop.

Are New York transit cops or Centralia School District police exempt from enforcing the laws against murder or robbery "off site", since their jurisdiction is simply the bus, subway or school system? Does a traffic cop get involved if he sees a robbery being committed?

If he is turning a blind eye to law breakers, he is not doing his job, even if it is to turn the matter over to the Federal Prosecutor.