It is illegal!

[Idaho Ron]

We were at a dog trial a few weeks back. One guy said he liked to turn his pointer loose and follow it with a ATV or a truck. He was told by a Fish and Game District Conservation officer that it was illegal. I was on his side. YES it should be illegal. You are using a motorized vehicle to help kill a animal.
So I asked the DCO this.
Why do lion and Bear hunters get to use motorized vehicles to kill big game?????
I told him it is not hard to find guys driving around with a strike dog on the cab. It is not hard to find guys driving around with equipment to find the dogs (tracking collars) so they can find the dogs and kill what the dogs find.
So why is it accepted to use a motorized vehicle to kill predators???
How is a bird dog pointing a bird, and a hound treeing a bear different?
Why can a hound (train) on baby animals, but it is illegal to train a pointer on baby birds?
I am still waiting for his reply to this. I asked him this about a month ago. I called him and he said he is running into some unexpected things.
So what do you guys think? Ron

 

[cjcj]

i think you guy`s in idaho need,some common sense written for this law, in plain simple easy to understand english.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Interesting point, and I see the potential issue here. I am not sure allowing pointers to be trained in July with baby birds is the answer, and I tend to think further restrictions on bear hunting isn't a good answer either.

This may be one of those, HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM issues, and we just let it pass.

 

[Ten Bears]

My question would be, why are hound hunters required to purchase hound permits ($11.00(?)each), but bird/waterfoul hunters don't need permits to run their pointer, setters, or retreivers?

I agree RON, it should be illegal to use any motorized vehicles while hound hunting to strike from and/or to track animals from.

This could be an issue (clarification) to take to the commission.

 

[Idaho Ron]

While on the surface I would say what ever a hound hunter needs to get more kills fine and dandy. But like I pointed out there is more to it.
Bird dogs and bird hunters are held to one standard and hounds and hound hunters are held to another. Why do hound hunters get to legally cheat?
Most of the hound hunters I know never kill lions or bears. I was told by a member of the local hound hunters group that the members have a sucess rate of about 10%
I asked why it was so low. He said if they killed the animals they treed they would soon have nothing to go after. After that he told me about a female Mt lion he chased that was so heavy frome her preganacy that she could not climb a tree so she stayed on the ground. At that point he sent in the puppies to get a little of her.
I just don't think it is fair. I would like to have a dog training season for my bird dogs! I have asked about training on wild birds and that is a NO NO out of season!
Another thing I used to think was if the hound hunters didn't use their dogs on Bears no one would shoot one. While I do think that getting a lion without a dog would be PURE luck. I think spotting and stalking or even baiting would be better in my area for bears, if they restricted hound hunting, at least give us a few weeks of a season with out hounds. I watched a bear a couple of years ago. I knew where he was all the time. Soon as the season started the hounds were there and I diden't get the bear or even see it again. My guess all they did was let the dogs chase the bear and then the hunters found the dogs the next day.
The hound hunters should be held to the same standard as the rest of the hunters in this state!
This is the set of rules I would like to see hound hunters have. Since most hound hunters like the chase. I would reward the sucessful hunters.

1- each pack would have a registered number. Since it is mandatory to report the kill, the huter has to also report which pack he used to make the kill.
2- the training season for hounds would be held to two weeks after the close of the season.
3- The training season would be a permit basis. If the pack has a reported kill that season they are allowed a permit for the taining season. This would reward the real hunters and not the chasers.
4- in every region there should be areas that do NOT allow hounds. These areas would be for baiting and spot and stalk ONLY.
5- No motorized vehicles allowed for hunters that are tracking dogs that are in pursuite.
6- no using a motorized vehicle to strike a dog on a track.
7- no over the snow vehicles or ATV's allowed to keep up with a pack.

RON

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 06-08-2003 09:30: Message edited by: Idaho Ron ]</font>

 

[Ithaca 37]

Ron, while I agree with what you've said, those new rules would kill hound hunting.

I had the same problem in the area I hunted bears, which was great for spot and stalk hunting. But over the years a few houndsmen started working the area and we could see the number of bear sightings going down each year as the houndsmen moved in. After about the second time the houndsmen turned their dogs loose we'd hardly see any more bears in the area where the chase took place. The bears were still there, they just became a lot more wary and secretive.

You suggest:

4- in every region there should be areas that do NOT allow hounds. These areas would be for baiting and spot and stalk ONLY..
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That's the best idea of all!

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5- No motorized vehicles allowed for hunters that are tracking dogs that are in pursuite.
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The houndsmen would claim that would make it impossible to track the dogs. They like to be able to drive from one ridge to another and use their radios and tracking electronics to keep track of the chase. Not very many houndsmen could actually cover a lot of the terrain the chase goes thru.
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6- no using a motorized vehicle to strike a dog on a track.
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They'll claim that's impossible too. It would make it a helluva lot tougher if they had to hunt them the old fashioned way.

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7- no over the snow vehicles or ATV's allowed to keep up with a pack.
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Naturally, I'm all in favor of that one. I don't use an ATV to keep up with my bird dog, but that's a different situation. She's not going to get on a track and end up three miles away from where we started. I think the off road vehicle restrictions should cover chasing hounds on ATVs and snowmobiles. Actually, I didn't know the bear hunters were using snowmobiles. I know the lion hunters do.
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I wonder if you'd get more action on this topic if you put a notice in the other sections the houndsmen and bear and lion hunters frequent.

I always think it's interesting that the lion or bear hunters will claim they treed 35 bears or lions this season, but the truth is they treed some of the same bears or lions 10 times.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 06-08-2003 11:10: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>

 

[ELKCHSR]

Some of those are great rules, but one only needs to take a look at the progressive sets of rules that followed when they finally banned all baiting and hound hunting in Washington State. The problem is that once a few rules are brought in, then it just doesn't seem to stop until it is all basically shut down, clear to the point of trapping mice out of the home with kill type traps...
I see they finally appealed that one, but the point and precedence has been set all ready, this would probably be history repeating itself. That is what I would be concerned with...