With the new regs in place it was only a matter of time...my neighbor is the first casualty in our area, he got wrote up for packing a side arm on his ATV while hauling bear bait up a trail to his stand,He is gonna fight it claiming 2nd amendment rights, we'll wait and see, something had to be done, but then again where is the line..h2m
Idaho ATV ban
- Thread starter HUNT2MUCH
- Start date
BuzzH
Well-known member
Your buddy doesnt have a chance...unless he's willing to spend many $$$$$'s on a costly court case.
The easy route would be to simply leave the hog leg at home while putting up bear bait.
The rules are in place for a reason....
The easy route would be to simply leave the hog leg at home while putting up bear bait.
The rules are in place for a reason....
Tara
New member
stupid rules make stupid court cases, pissed off people and more people bitching
Flytier
New member
Dont give up hope yet. The right judge with the right thinking is all it takes. After that it can get spendy. But when it is all said and done, we still have the right to keep and bear arms. Stupid rules or not.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Stupid people not knowing how to read the regulations...makes the states rich from collecting fines.
It also makes attorneys rich trying to defend stupid people.
The regulations are in place because hunters have had enough of the ATV abuse. I think its a great law, and I hope more of the same is on the way...especially in MT and WY.
I dont think he'll have a snowballs chance in hell of defending his actions on the 2nd amendment angle. Nobody is taking away his right to bear arms...he can walk anywhere in those 17 hunting units with all the arms he cares to pack...but when the ATV, an off-road trail, and a bear tag are involved...then it changes. I wonder if he's ever thought about packing the bear bait in without a firearm or take the bait and firearm WHILE HIKING? The guy had all kinds of options and not a single right was taken away. He has the right to take out his checkbook and sing the blues.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 05-21-2003 21:25: Message edited by: BuzzH ]</font>
It also makes attorneys rich trying to defend stupid people.
The regulations are in place because hunters have had enough of the ATV abuse. I think its a great law, and I hope more of the same is on the way...especially in MT and WY.
I dont think he'll have a snowballs chance in hell of defending his actions on the 2nd amendment angle. Nobody is taking away his right to bear arms...he can walk anywhere in those 17 hunting units with all the arms he cares to pack...but when the ATV, an off-road trail, and a bear tag are involved...then it changes. I wonder if he's ever thought about packing the bear bait in without a firearm or take the bait and firearm WHILE HIKING? The guy had all kinds of options and not a single right was taken away. He has the right to take out his checkbook and sing the blues.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 05-21-2003 21:25: Message edited by: BuzzH ]</font>
BuzzH
Well-known member
Michael, why will it be shot down? It is not discriminatory, in any way. Unless you feel the need to take your ATV off road while in possession of a firearm and a tag to harvest a big-game animal. Leave the ATV on the road, leave the tag at home or leave the firearm home and you wont have any trouble. You can still pack a firearm, you can still ride an ATV, and you can still hunt...not just all at the same time (off road).
I think it will be damn difficult, if not impossible, for even the slickest attorney and deepest pockets to stretch it to discrimination or an infringement of the 2nd.
I think it will be damn difficult, if not impossible, for even the slickest attorney and deepest pockets to stretch it to discrimination or an infringement of the 2nd.
Steamer
New member
I really hate to be ignorant but what was your friend cited for? Did I miss something? I would like to know want part of the Idaho code was violated.
cjcj
New member
i don`t get it! what`s wrong with driving down a road with a firearm? i need some education here.
Elkhunter
New member
I must say that I have to agree with Buzz 100% on this. The guy broke the rules. As Buzz said he could have carried the bait in on his back with his side arm, or he could have left the side arm in his truck.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Idaho passed a law closing 17 hunting units to the use of ATV's while pursuing big-game. The law states that you cannot take an ATV off-road (off road is defined as anywhere a passenger vehicle is not capable of going) while in possession of a firearm and a license to harvest a big-game animal (while the hunting season is open).
cjcj
New member
so are you saying if this guy didn`t have a firearm he would be legal? is it ok to drive the quad in there as long as he`s not armed?
Muledeer4me
New member
cjcj,this new rule doesn't effect anyone just out for a ride.
Only hunter's.
I hope the guy fight's it .
I don't have a problem with the rule so much as I do with the clairty of it.
It's still legal to haul in your hunting camp,with your firearm's,so packing in bait should be allowed? Shouldn't it?
It's not illegal to carry a firearm while retriving downed game,it's RECOMMENDED that you leave behind or unload it and stow it away to remove any question about whether you are hunting.
"A person will be considered actively hunting if they have a valid hunting license and tag and are chasing,driving,flushing,attracting,pursing,seeking,following,trailing,shooting at or lying in wait for,any wildlife while in the possession of a hunting weapon.The rule does not affect persons not actively hunting or staying on established road's."
So would hauling bait into your bait sight fall under (attracting)?wildlife.
How do we know the guy was intending to shoot a bear if he saw it any more then we would know if someone packing in there "CAMP" with firearms unloaded wasnt intending to grab ammo & firearm and shoot at game if they saw it while packing in there camp?
I wonder it there are any org. out there that would be willing to help this guy fight that ticket??????
Only hunter's.
I hope the guy fight's it .
I don't have a problem with the rule so much as I do with the clairty of it.
It's still legal to haul in your hunting camp,with your firearm's,so packing in bait should be allowed? Shouldn't it?
It's not illegal to carry a firearm while retriving downed game,it's RECOMMENDED that you leave behind or unload it and stow it away to remove any question about whether you are hunting.
"A person will be considered actively hunting if they have a valid hunting license and tag and are chasing,driving,flushing,attracting,pursing,seeking,following,trailing,shooting at or lying in wait for,any wildlife while in the possession of a hunting weapon.The rule does not affect persons not actively hunting or staying on established road's."
So would hauling bait into your bait sight fall under (attracting)?wildlife.
How do we know the guy was intending to shoot a bear if he saw it any more then we would know if someone packing in there "CAMP" with firearms unloaded wasnt intending to grab ammo & firearm and shoot at game if they saw it while packing in there camp?
I wonder it there are any org. out there that would be willing to help this guy fight that ticket??????
Steamer
New member
Ok I found it
For those who haven't read about the new rule you can read it here, http://www2.state.id.us/fishgame/common/regulations/bg/bg03/bg03_1-6intro.pdf
The way I understand it the guy still would have been in violation just because he was carring bait bait on the ATV. The bait could be considered attracting. Look at paragraph four which states:
A person will be considered actively huntin if ther have a valid hunting license and tag and are chaxing, driving, flushing, attracting, pursuing, seeking, following, trailing, shooting at, stalking, or lying in wait for, any wildlife while in possession of a hunting weapon. The rule does not affect persons not actively hunting or hunters stay on established roads.
Sounds simple enough to me. This rule shouldn't be that hard to understand. Much like the one that is written for people who participate in tradition hunts.
Obviously the guy couldn't read or did not want to understand and chose to ignore the law. Either way he violated the law.
It would be easier if Fish and Game would say the it illegal to use an ATV off road while engaging in any hunting activity.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 05-22-2003 09:34: Message edited by: Steamer ]</font>
The way I understand it the guy still would have been in violation just because he was carring bait bait on the ATV. The bait could be considered attracting. Look at paragraph four which states:
A person will be considered actively huntin if ther have a valid hunting license and tag and are chaxing, driving, flushing, attracting, pursuing, seeking, following, trailing, shooting at, stalking, or lying in wait for, any wildlife while in possession of a hunting weapon. The rule does not affect persons not actively hunting or hunters stay on established roads.
Sounds simple enough to me. This rule shouldn't be that hard to understand. Much like the one that is written for people who participate in tradition hunts.
Obviously the guy couldn't read or did not want to understand and chose to ignore the law. Either way he violated the law.
It would be easier if Fish and Game would say the it illegal to use an ATV off road while engaging in any hunting activity.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 05-22-2003 09:34: Message edited by: Steamer ]</font>
Ithaca 37
New member
MD, "I wonder it there are any org. out there that would be willing to help this guy fight that ticket?????? "
Good idea. Why don't you get off that ATV and organize some help for the guy yourself?!
Steamer, "It would be easier if Fish and Game would say the it illegal to use an ATV off road while engaging in any hunting activity." Like scouting?
When I was CAP director I spent lots of time trying to rewrite and clarify regulations so they'd be more understandable. It's a tough project!
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 05-22-2003 09:50: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
Good idea. Why don't you get off that ATV and organize some help for the guy yourself?!
Steamer, "It would be easier if Fish and Game would say the it illegal to use an ATV off road while engaging in any hunting activity." Like scouting?
When I was CAP director I spent lots of time trying to rewrite and clarify regulations so they'd be more understandable. It's a tough project!
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 05-22-2003 09:50: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
Steamer
New member
Ithaca it waould be real scary if fish and game would write the laws in plain english for everyone to understand with out being a lawyer.
Flytier
New member
Pain English. Sa what it is supposed to mean rather than the way it is now. Say what you mean and mean what you say. Thats how laws oughta be written.
I still think you should have the right to carry a gun while engaged in baiting. For personel protection only. Obviously not a rife though Common sensecomes into play here, rather than just citing a guy cuz he is packing. What ever happened to discreation on the part of the officer? And that is just my very own personal opinion. If ya havent noticed, I tend to get a bit pissy when peoples gun rights are messed with.
I still think you should have the right to carry a gun while engaged in baiting. For personel protection only. Obviously not a rife though Common sensecomes into play here, rather than just citing a guy cuz he is packing. What ever happened to discreation on the part of the officer? And that is just my very own personal opinion. If ya havent noticed, I tend to get a bit pissy when peoples gun rights are messed with.
Steamer
New member
Gee Tier no one said you can't carry a weapon while baiting. You just can't ride an ATV off road while hunting in certain areas. You can't say the guy wasn't hunting. He had a license, a bear tag, bear bait and a gun. I really don't think he was looking for firewood.
Oh I forgot that you were attacked by the Forest Faries one day while you riding your ATV through the woods when you were baitng grouse.
Oh I forgot that you were attacked by the Forest Faries one day while you riding your ATV through the woods when you were baitng grouse.
cjcj
New member
it would seem that this is a dumd assed law! what is it`s logic? if your on a mountian bike can you have a gun? if your in a canoe can you have a gun? if your in your truck can you have a gun? atv= no gun. seem`s stupid and whoever passed it has no common sense! if there`s a road that`s legal and not closed to ANY vehicle traffic, then what`s the problem?
JoseCuervo
New member
CJ,
It is not a stupid law, it is a new regulation, put in after tons of public comment. The people of Idaho clearly spoke, and asked for relief from the constant sounds of ATV's.
The Law is quite clear, and if this guy wants to fight it, then at best he will find a loophole, which will be closed for the next guy. Even a win, would be just temporary.
MD et al.
Spend a little bit of time in the Bear section, and you can read about Moosie, ElkTurd, and myself's baiting this season.
My guess is we have hauled in close to 2000 pounds (that is not a Typo, yes, nearly a ton!!) to feed the bears. At no time have I ever felt the need to carry a weapon to protect myself (from Who, I have no clue
). In fact, the weight of the gun would be just more weight to carry.
We have also not needed to use an ATV to pack this bait in, so this culprit, caught breaking the law, may also be guilty of being a Fat-Assed ATV rider
I think this guy, if he was smart, would have his attorney contact the Prosecutor, and work a deal. A Guilty plea, for an easy sentence, no loss of license, and maybe a $50+court costs fee, record expunged in 6 months with no additional F&G violations, and allow the F&G to advertise the first Citation, and do the publicity. Let all the Fall hunters know, that hunting off ATV's is done in these units. This guy has a chance to help the situation, and he wants to go fight 2nd ammendment rights? I don't think many 2nd ammendment rights cases set much for precedence, until the reach the Supreme Court.
My two cents....
It is not a stupid law, it is a new regulation, put in after tons of public comment. The people of Idaho clearly spoke, and asked for relief from the constant sounds of ATV's.
The Law is quite clear, and if this guy wants to fight it, then at best he will find a loophole, which will be closed for the next guy. Even a win, would be just temporary.
MD et al.
Spend a little bit of time in the Bear section, and you can read about Moosie, ElkTurd, and myself's baiting this season.
My guess is we have hauled in close to 2000 pounds (that is not a Typo, yes, nearly a ton!!) to feed the bears. At no time have I ever felt the need to carry a weapon to protect myself (from Who, I have no clue
We have also not needed to use an ATV to pack this bait in, so this culprit, caught breaking the law, may also be guilty of being a Fat-Assed ATV rider
I think this guy, if he was smart, would have his attorney contact the Prosecutor, and work a deal. A Guilty plea, for an easy sentence, no loss of license, and maybe a $50+court costs fee, record expunged in 6 months with no additional F&G violations, and allow the F&G to advertise the first Citation, and do the publicity. Let all the Fall hunters know, that hunting off ATV's is done in these units. This guy has a chance to help the situation, and he wants to go fight 2nd ammendment rights? I don't think many 2nd ammendment rights cases set much for precedence, until the reach the Supreme Court.
My two cents....
