How to deal with wolfy elk

[JoseCuervo]

There is no way I am ready to jump to conclusions, and change locations or tactics. We have had wolves all over our area, and this past season I saw more Elk than ever in the area.

I am not sure that I am ready to give the Wolves credit for all the Elk that are now roaming the area.

That being said, I am convinced that the Wolves only eat the 300+ B&C bulls. As we had tons of cows, spikes, raghorns.

Ithica,
And MD wonders why people think of her that way....

 

[TheTone]

I'm not so sure that the extra predator alone is making the elk behave entirely different. Most elk are used to dealing with bears and cougars on a daily basis so they have the skills to survive to begin with, its just they have this new predator in the mix that is just adding more heat to the fire. I think northern idaho's elk problem, and its a big problem in some areas, has to do with a really bad winter we had in the mid 90's, degrading habitat, increased bear and cougar populations, sit back and watch management techniques, and the introduction of a new predator that has been reproducing at rates that they supposebly wouldn't and may be a more efficient hunter than previous ones. All those factors together are not good on elk herds.

I'll admit that I still hunt the same "traditional" family hunting area, but this year I am going to change it up a little and try a few different spots. When we first started hunting this area in the mid 80's there were elk everywhere. You couldn't go out without seeing elk, now its alot different and there are many factors as to why. But no matter what you can never hunt every square inch of an area and I think I know a few spots that get very little hunting pressure due mainly to access, those are some of the areas I'm hunting this year.

 

[Lostagain]

Hell, elk have feet and they put them down in the direction where they can get food and shelter. It doesn't really matter what's in their way. The folks bitching about atv's ,roads, wolves and bears will bitch about anything. If you want to hunt; hunt. Just quit the bitching. As been said before, be out there, the critters are NOT in front of the easy chair. I don't really care how you're doing it, just be ethical.

 

[T Bone]

In the Sawtooth zone I havn't seen any behaviour changes in the elk. The only conistent factor I have found that puts me in elk is to get away from roads and trails. Can't say I've ever seen a live wuf in there.

Last year while in the Frank Church the elk were bugling all day and night in a known wolf area.

 

[Muledeer4me]

"MD, Why don't you go be an asshole in some other thread? "I havent seen any video's out that give any info. on how to hunt Elk in wolf country." Real hunters don't wait for somebody else to make a video, they go figure it out themselves."

Ithaca,what's the difference between watching a video or reading someone's post?
Many people do both during the off season.
We all like to learn and I thought you like
to teach
so a
video would be just the thing.

I'll bet we have alot of members that have never hunted elk let alone seen a wolf or had the chance to hunt around them.
It would give them a chance to see a real hunter in real wolf country putting together all the things you have been telling us about hunting elk.
Whats not to like???????????/

Heck I would even buy the first video.


T bone, we got into a pack of seven .
We were on the other side of the HWY from Stanley Lake.
I'm not a supporter of the reintroduction ,but it was pretty cool to see them.
They stuck around for about 20 min. while we watched them.

 

[whitedeer]

Hey, place me on the order list for one of this kindly old gentleman's "Wolf Tactic Elk Hunt" video. And maybe for payment......we can send him to "Charm School".

 

[1_pointer]

Keep the info coming folks, I'm all ears. I've killed exactly 1 elk, so I'm just wanting to learn. The area I hunted doesn't have wolves, so I found out where they fed at night and where they hid out during the day. I tried to be between those two places early in the morning and it worked out.

 

[Ten Bears]

Nice try at twisting your own topic......

 

[Ithaca 37]

Ten, You wouldn't know if it was twisted or not. This topic is way over your head.

 

[Muledeer4me]

"Ten, You wouldn't know if it was twisted or not. This topic is way over your head."

Ithaca,no need to get your panties in a wad just do the video show us how it's done.
Stop all the talk and start walking the walk.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Ten and MD, It's interesting to go back and look at your total contributions to this thread. They amount to zero information, as usual.

 

[whitedeer]

The following is what I have observed from personal experience. More so with lions than with wolves since wolf rangw has been limited. Whenever I find a fresh predator kill, I move right along to a different area, regardless of fresh sign.

"Mountain lions and wolves keep deer and elk moving on the winter range. This alone is perhaps more important in an ecological sense that the actual removal of animals. The mere presence of a lion or wolf or a family of lions or wolves in a locality or watershed does not appear to alarm game animals. When a kill is made, however, the reaction is striking. Deer and elk immediately leave the area, cross to the far side, and in some instances leave to enter a different drainage. This behavior, observed without exception, acts to distribute game animals."

 

[Elkhunter]

I have found that they are not in the open near as much as they were prior to the wolf pack in my area. They are spending very little tim in the open and head for the timber very early. It seems that the elk are on the move more now than before. They are still in the real thick cover though from what we found last year, but I don't believe they are staying put as much as before.

 

[Ten Bears]

My point was that unless wolves have taken to riding ATVs, Atvs should not be whined about in the same Topic.

VIDEO, VIDEO, VIDEO

 

[Ithaca 37]

Here's more interesting info. Wanta know why you're not seeing as many elk? Smaller bands and hiding in the timber!

Newswise — Bull elk in the northwest part of the Yellowstone Ecosystem care more about food than anything else during the winter, and they're paying for it, according to Montana State University researchers.

Oblivious to danger at dinner time, bull elk in the Gallatin Canyon are about six times more likely than females to be killed by wolves, said Scott Creel, an ecologist studying wolf-elk interactions in the Porcupine, Taylor and Tepee/Daly drainages between Bozeman and West Yellowstone. Cow elk, on the other hand, figuratively put down their forks and become vigilant when they sense wolves.

"For elk in winter, there's a trade-off between doing the things that will keep them well fed and doing the things that minimize the risk of falling prey to wolves," Creel said. "Because cows have more stored fat, they are in a better position than bulls to stop foraging, become vigilant and seek cover when wolves are present."

John Winnie Jr., a doctoral student working with Creel, said the researchers originally thought the bulls ignored wolves because the bulls were "the big, bad dudes in town. Wolves aren't going to mess with them."

But the scientists learned differently.

The bull elk are famished, Winnie said. Entering winter in much worse condition than the cows, they're desperately trying to cope with the weight they lost during mating season. They're also trying to chow down when food is hard to find. A bull elk can lose more than 100 pounds from early September until early November. He's already lost 20 percent of his weight when December and January bring some of the winter's worst weather.

"They probably can't afford to be as vigilant as cows," Winnie said. "They simply cannot stop grazing since they are already in such crummy shape."

Creel joked that, "The bulls will pretty much keep eating 'til you pry the grass from their cold, dead lips."

Creel, Winnie, MSU graduate student Dave Christianson and Ken Hamlin, research biologist with Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks, have conducted their research during the past four winters. They expect to continue at least three more years and expand their project to see how elk responses to predators affect calves. Their first scholarly paper on the study has been accepted for publication in the journal "Animal Behavior." It reports that elk, contrary to expectation, form smaller herds when wolves are in the area.

"Prior research with other species has mostly found that prey can reduce the risk of predation by forming larger groups, because big groups have more eyes to detect predators and can defend themselves cooperatively," Creel said. "We were a bit surprised to find that elk break into smaller herds when wolves are present. We think this serves to reduce the odds of being detected."

The study area covers about 125 square kilometers and contains approximately 1,700 elk and five to 15 wolves. The researchers observe the animals with binoculars, radio collars, global positioning systems, scat, tracks and howls.

The study originally focused on direct relationships between elk and wolves, Winnie said. How many elk did the wolves kill? But the researchers eventually noticed indirect effects, too.

"It's pretty clear there are lots of strong responses by elk to wolves," Creel said. "They are not going about things the same way. They are changing pretty much everything we looked at, and it's likely that these changes carry some costs for the elk."

The elk, for example, head into conifer forests to avoid wolves. That means they're eating less grass -- the most calorie-laden food and easiest for them to digest -- and more shrubs, leaves, sticks and small branches.

"Gallatin elk move into the timber when wolves are present, as well as splitting into smaller groups and spending less time eating and more time on guard," Creel said. "Now we're getting information on how these changes might alter their nutrition, birth rates and calf survival."

Funding for Creel's study comes from several sources, including the National Science Foundation. Winnie received fellowships from the NSF's EPSCoR program, MSU's Big Sky Institute, and Transboundary Research.

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""Gallatin elk move into the timber when wolves are present, as well as splitting into smaller groups and spending less time eating and more time on guard," Creel said. "Now we're getting information on how these changes might alter their nutrition, birth rates and calf survival."

And the hunters are going around saying, "We can't find any elk! The wolves ate them all!" Think maybe the smaller bands hiding in the timber and being on guard more has anything to do with hunters seeing less elk?

 

[ELKCHSR]

I have noticed a couple wolves in this area, I guess there are a few more than that after reading the pamplet that was sent to me by our wolf bioligists. I have only been able to hunt this region for the last 7 plus years, problem is, I haven't stayed in any one area long enough to be able to study the individual groups. That is part of the problem with learning most of what you know by seat of the panse experience. I have even found a few new areas that I need to check out when the season opens. But I will keep a close eye over the next few years to see what I can on this new phenomenen. It is a very interesting point and some thing to keep an eye on... Good topic...