Nick87
Well-known member
I would think that if your concerned about lead being unsafe you'd be more concerned about using lead on birds than big game. Don't care what you shoot either way. Just making an observation.
How important is it?
- Thread starter mtmuley
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Most talk about having high bc bullet because of distance. To me it’s for cheating the wind. Distance is easy to figure out. Guessing the wind is just that a guess. I pick bullets for accuracy and the terminal performance I like in a hunting bullet. Those bullets just happen to also have a higher bc than most bullets in that weight range.
One of my coyote rifles shoots a bullet with a trash bc but I like the minimal damage it causes hides.
One of my coyote rifles shoots a bullet with a trash bc but I like the minimal damage it causes hides.
Wind. Anybody that says they can read it at distance is FOS. mtmuley
I have good evidence I’m an “above average” shooter. A couple years ago I had an opportunity at the biggest buck of my life at 750ish, which is a high percentage shot for me. I had a pretty concealed path to the next ridge which ended up being 532 yds, and risked the chance he’d move or the other hunter in the basin (who was actually closer) would shoot him first, and closed that distance as I knew it would increase the chance everything went smoothly. Luck was on my side that day…
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
Slower speed and softer alloys limit lead "spread" from shot in bird breasts vs the lead "cloud" that results from high speed bullet impact. And we eat a lot less upland meat compared to big game (in years I get tags). But nonetheless, I get your point. It is a balance.
Exactly. That’s why I chose high bc to help me cheat a little
The Hedgehog
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532 is better than 750. Would BC have mattered? mtmuley
Great buck. Not relevant to the conversation. Thanks though. mtmuley
The Hedgehog
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Can’t speak for Carl - but past 500 - everything matters. I always get a kick outta the guys that get “a turret cut” for their rifle.
The Hedgehog
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Yes it is. Duh.
I don't have any. Even for my lowly. 270 Winchester. mtmuley
If your question is can people shoot stuff at stupid distances the answer is yes I have done it on coyotes. For BC now I look for one over .4 that shoots accurately.
BC definitely mattered even at 532 yds. I was shooting a short-ish 6 Dasher and a less aggressive (lower bc) bullet like even a 95 gr Nosler BT would have been going pretty slow at that distance for decent terminal performance. Wind drift certainly matters too, but the intermittent fog provided a very friendly wind sock that morning.
I couldn’t recommend the permanent yardage marked turret, or ANYONE selling the same.
That said, a turret labeled with yardage (and preferably a mil backup) can make sense for a specific hunt where you have a pretty good idea what the density altitude will be. It should definitely be considered temporary, but I’ve had good luck making them for free here:
DIY Rifle Scope Turret Labels
Create functional and awesome looking ballistic turret labels. For free! Print them, cut them out and tape them to the rifle scope turret.
turretlabels.com
Forkyfinder
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Mono metal bullets typically (notable exceptions) dont expand at as low of velocity in my understanding/experience. They also have a much smaller temporary wound cavity.
Im in the camp that bullets ideally don't necessarily exit and dump all of the energy into the animal... and like the range/safety factor on expansion (room past minimum) is better with a "weak," heavy, Iong for caliber bullet.
What copper bullets do you use? What is the minimum terminal velocity?
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
I don't buy "dumping energy" view of lethality. It is about major organ damage and blood loss. The two dozen or so animals shot by my son and I with copper have all failed to make it more than 20 feet from where they stood. From deer to pronghorn to kudu to elk to black bear to zebra, etc. 100% first shot drop dead kills. The entire lung cavities look like they have been put through a blender, shoulders totally shattered, etc. Most punched through both sides so only have recovered two of them, but looked just like the manufacturers "petal" pictures.
I have 100% confidence in monos made by Hammer and Barnes.
As for velocities, we use manufacturers specs (typically 2000fps or 1800fps) verified with actual range dope to set the max distant shot we will take with given cartridge. For the most part we won't take shots at big game beyond about 425yds - even though some of our rounds have the capability to be effective further and we shoot regularly at range beyond that, we just don't feel right pushing it when it comes to living creatures under field conditions. For us it is hunting, not shooting live targets. To each their own, but we prefer not to push everything to the edge of performance - we try to reduce variables to ensure ethical kills.
Forkyfinder
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You can "not buy it" but energy transfer is what creates tissue damage. Sounds like you arent using what i traditionally think of with a typically "tougher" copper bullet, and those are transfering energy well - especially if you have bigger exits when you do.
Ive rarely come into a situation to truly need to shoot beyond 500 (except coyotes and prarie dogs - those i might try to shoot at a mile lol).
Doublecluck
Well-known member
BC, retained energy and velocity don’t mean much if the bullet doesn’t expand, transfer energy or leave a wound channel. Bc is equally important to bullet design.
I can’t imagine my kids dumping antelope where they stand at 600-864 yards this season with a 6cm unless 1. Shooting a high bc bullet, 2.having a bullet that will perform at lower velocity.
People can believe whatever they want on energy transfer but I’ve got a pile of phone scope videos, in fact I would venture to say nearly all, better than 95% of everything we’ve ever shot with a certain bullet has dropped where it stood. The rest went less than 100 yards and were mortally wounded. Prior to that I used bonded core or copper bullets (Barnes) and the norm was for the animal to run 20-200 yards then go down. If you were in California in 8’ tall brush that hadn’t burned in 100 years, full of ticks and rattlers, that can be a problem.
I can’t imagine my kids dumping antelope where they stand at 600-864 yards this season with a 6cm unless 1. Shooting a high bc bullet, 2.having a bullet that will perform at lower velocity.
People can believe whatever they want on energy transfer but I’ve got a pile of phone scope videos, in fact I would venture to say nearly all, better than 95% of everything we’ve ever shot with a certain bullet has dropped where it stood. The rest went less than 100 yards and were mortally wounded. Prior to that I used bonded core or copper bullets (Barnes) and the norm was for the animal to run 20-200 yards then go down. If you were in California in 8’ tall brush that hadn’t burned in 100 years, full of ticks and rattlers, that can be a problem.
rogerthat
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What bullet? 108 eldm?
