Hornady Custom ammo, Bad brass!

[deadeye2]

I just finished resizeing, triming and clean-ing 120 Hornardy Custom 22-250 cases, once fired. Very case has a lose primer pocket! I called Hornady and talked with them about the problem. They loaded that lot with Win 760 powder and it changes pressure if the ammo is allowed to get hot! (I know not to leave ammo out in the sun, but it still shouldn't go to this extreme!) No where on that box is a warning about this problem! I asked them to replace the brass, no way! I have loaded many thousands of rounds and I have never ran into this before with once fired factory ammo.
This is the first group of Frontier brass that I have ever worked with and I feel that it will be the last! Anyone else had this problem??
Be safe, have fun!
deadeye2

 

[danr55]

That is probably part of the reason why Winchester is taking W760 and Hodgdon is taking H 450 off of the market. They are both very heat sensitive.

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Dan AZ www.huntandlodge.com

 

[deadeye2]

danr55,
why didn't they recall the ammo. I do not think all this ammo was shot in the summer time only.
Be safe, have fun!
deadeye2

 

[WDSWIFT]

deadeye, I've used ww760 since Christ was a corporal, and 3 things I can say from experince on the stuff. 1) if you sight in on a 40 degree day, then shoot again on a 90 degree day... the point of impact will have changed some, but usually not more than an inch or so. On big game this is nothing but on varmints it is considerable. 2) I have always been able to make any reload with 760 shoot at least decent if not excellent (especially the Swift and the 22-250)...3) It is almost unbeatable in metering out consistant weights.

As far as the trouble with loose primer pockets I've spent many many 85-90 deg. days in the beanfields and never experienced that problem, but I don't crimp either which I beleive may have some bearing in this phenomenum as well.

If winchester is discontinuing the 760, I for one will surely miss it.WD.

 

[danr55]

WDSwift, Haven't you noticed any difference in pressure on hot days? I know that for the short time that I used 760, it scared me a couple of times. I know a couple of people that used w760 for competition. They kept their loads on ice to prevent the heat variation from changing the buring characteristics of the powder. Perhaps one of our members that shoots competition can come in and comment on this? How about it fellas, any comment?

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Dan AZ www.huntandlodge.com

 

[deadeye2]

Well, I have about 90 pounds of powder, and I will throw the W760 and the one pound of H450 that I have away! WDS, if you like them you are welcome to them! I will not load any thing that will cause this problem! I have enought problems with out buying one. I have thought about the talk I had today with Hornady'S man on the phone and I feel that they should shoot thier own ammo! I would never buy it or tell anyone else to do so!! As a buyer you have no way of knowing what powder is loaded into the lot # that you are buying! It may work great on a nice fall day, but what happens at -20, or +110??? He was telling me about his 22-250's poping in his Ruger #1 and he had to drive the cases out of the Ruger! I have only knowledge that I have gained by reloading for about 15 years, one would think that Winchester and Hornady would be smarter, hell they pay people for this!! Or do they just want to sell the rest of it and hope it will go away????
Be safe, have fun!
deadeye2
P.S. It was 196 rounds of brass, long hot day, yea right!

[This message has been edited by deadeye2 (edited 02-08-2001).]

 

[WDSWIFT]

Danr, I've used 760 since back in the late 70's or early 80's, in 30-06, 243, 220 Swift, 22-250,25-06, and I think in the 6-284, never once had a problem with the powder showing excessive pressure on hot days. But bear in mind that hot is a relative term... hot out there is HOT!

Gee deadeye, I hate to feel like I'm taking advantage of ya, but mail me on the powder you have and lets see if we can't work out a deal. I don't blame ya for being fired up about it though, that would make ya a bit on the nervous side. I'm really surprised that Hornady is being unwilling to satisfy you on this too. Bummer!
Do you have any of them left unfired? I'd be real curious to know how much 760 they have in there. I use 41gr in the '250 with a 50gr bullet. I'm thinking it is a brass problem that they are blaming the powder for.WD.

[This message has been edited by WDSWIFT (edited 02-08-2001).]

 

[danr55]

Hnag on fellas,,,,,While I've been trying to get my computer back on line, I've been talking with my new sources of information. They can't seem to agree on which powder Winchester is dumping. One says 760, the other says 748. Both of these guys are in the wholesale distribution business and sell to dealers. The one thing that they do agree on is that Hodgdon is taking H450 down. So if you want to give the powderaway because of the way it performs, go for it. I don't blame you. If you want to give it away because I said it was coming off the market, let me get this thing straightened out first. As soon as I get an answer from Olin, I'll let you know. As far as hot, yes it is hot out here when its hot. That's not the problem. The problem is when you build a load that shoots good in the wintertime. Then go try to shoot those pesky July Prairie Puppies. BIGGGGG Difference.

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Dan AZ www.huntandlodge.com

 

[WDSWIFT]

Danr, Gee thanks for checking on all this, and please keep us up to speed on what ya find out. If they dump the 748 that will fire up a bunch of 223 shooters that I know.
I went back over my records out of curiosity yesterday and checked on when I developed the loads for the Swift, 22-250, 25-06, and the 6-284, and by coincidence every one of them was developed in the May-June-July time frame. Maybe this is why I never experienced the pressure problem.....the loads were developed when it was hot outside aleady. WD.

 

[danr55]

WDSwift, That should pose no problem then. As I understand, the problem comes when the loads are developed in relatively cool weather and then shot in hotter weather. That is the problem that I have experienced with regard to heat sensitive powders. The other problem that I have found is when you develope a near maximum load in warm weather and then shoot that load in cold weather. It may be a phenomenon characteristic only to Arizona because of the extreme range of atmospheric conditions, but the loads will exhibit more pressure signs in the winter because of the colder, moister, denser air. This has nothing to do with the powder, only the atmospheric changes. It is natural for some increase and the loads have to be dangerously close to over pressure, but it is interesting when you fire a round and can't get your bolt open. It makes you glad that the first one was well placed.

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Dan AZ www.huntandlodge.com

 

[WDSWIFT]

Thanks Dan, and be sure to let us know what Olin has to say, and I'll do the same if I hear anything.

INTERESTING(?)

when the bolt won't open.

Dan ya need help. Professional help. WD.

 

[deadeye2]

WDSWIft,
I enjoyed your vist, please feel free to come by anytine. That is one fine looking rifle, I bet it is a "one holer!"The price was right on the powder, wasn't it? (free)
danr55, Any word on the glasses?
Be safe, have fun!
deaedeye2

 

[danr55]

Deadeye, We're still looking for one more. I hate to pass up a deal like this. So we are looking everywhere. I'll let you know. If I have to buy two pair then I'll do it. After all, I can get two pair for just a little more than one pair costs normally. Anyway, I'll let you know in 10 days or less.

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Dan AZ www.huntandlodge.com

 

[Fatman]

I hope there are no plans to dump W748 either, this will upset a whole bunch of T/C .35 Rem. shooters as well.

 

[Chainsaw]

I have used "surplus" replacement powders and have had good luck with them. Each 8 lb. container is a little different but so is the commercial powder that I have purchased. I use 748/BLC-2, AA2520, and H414 under the following surplus designations from these 2 sites

www.patsreloading.com/patsrel/prices.htm

www.gibrass.com/gunpowder.html

I have only 1 rifle that is loaded to over "book" loading data, and it handles this powder well.

I don't know about the rest of you, but most loading data in todays books are really watered down loads, so even though safety is of utmost concern, I don't think a problem will exist with data in recently published books--------Chainsaw

 

[Fatman]

Chainsaw

You are right about the new loads being watered down, I have a Pacific manual from around 1972 and it is amazing to see the difference in some of the recommended loads then and now. From what I have found, my Lyman 47th edition shows hotter loads than Hodgdon, Nosler, or Hornady.

 

[Calif. Hunter]

I'm not one to push the envelope too much when I'm reloading, but I sure noticed that the latest Speer manual has sure toned down its maximum loads. Loads that I have used for years are now suddenly over-max. I did work up to them, so I know that they are okay for my guns.

 

[Fatman]

I don't like to push it either, a few extra FPS are not worth losing an eye, finger, hand, or possibly worse. I was just commenting on max. loads listed in the manuals then and now.

[This message has been edited by Fatman (edited 03-02-2001).]