Schutzhund
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Ive talked to Steve several times with other questions. I didnt want to bother him again and used this thread to reach a broader sample of hunters first.
Hammer vs Barnes question???
- Thread starter Elktrack
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I've known the guy over 40 years. Trust me, he likes to talk bullets. mtmuley
Schutzhund
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He is enthusiastic thats for sure. I'll call him but I'm still interested if anyone here has used the larger Power Hammer? .30 cal and up.
Or you could post up your question on the Hamner site. mtmuley
std7mag
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I don't often use lead free bullets.
But when I do it's either Hammer or Cutting Edge.
I'd use the original Barnes "X"bullets. They were originally designed to shed their petals.
But by now the copper would have age hardened.
With the performance I've seen with the modern Barnes bullets, I'll pass.
But when I do it's either Hammer or Cutting Edge.
I'd use the original Barnes "X"bullets. They were originally designed to shed their petals.
But by now the copper would have age hardened.
With the performance I've seen with the modern Barnes bullets, I'll pass.
Schutzhund
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Ive thought about that and i may join once I have something to contribute to the discussion. I know they like to see successful/accurate load development, ive just crossed that bridge.
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Yep. Exit wound on my elk this year. 80ish yard shot, 120 grain Hammer Hunter via 7mm-08. Second elk I've killed with a round that is "way too small" for 600 pound animals
Interesting. Never heard of copper age hardening, and Google says that's not a thing. Do you have experience with this?
D4570
Well-known member
I have a 1919 Penny that I just ran through one of those presses that made a dog tag. It ran through the same as a 2019 I had. I don't think that's a thing.
std7mag
Well-known member
Not with bullets. I go through them too fast. Lol
But I have experience with copper (not just copper does it) age hardening in the aviation field.
Quick heat up to glowing then let cool anneals it.
Don't quench!
Interesting. Guess the question is whether bullets sitting at a stable temperature would ever harden, and if so, how long that would take. Anyone a metallurgist on here?
Google. Doesn't look to be an issue. mtmuley
Here's my take on Hammer hunters, just the 143 grain .284. Shot out of a 7mm rem mag. Killed a bull elk, my shot was high and elk dropped dead, wonderful!!. Son shot a mule deer buck at 150 yards, speed 3,010 ft/sec. 1st shot was right behind the front shoulder, double lung. Deer did not seem hit, turned around 180 degrees, I'm watching form 400 yard away thru spotter and see the spot it hit--thinking it's a very good shot. Shot #2 goes into the deer, another behind the shoulder double lung hit, I see that one thru the spotter also and think dead deer. Buck shows no sign of being hit and then starts to trot down hill. I'm thinking son don't shoot again but shot #3 goes off and hit the deer in the spine, crap back straps are going to be missing. Deer goes down. Upon skinning we find lots and lots of copper fragments (small pieces) against both sides of the hide. Both shots thru the lungs were 2-3 inches apart. Hole in is .284 and the hole out is .284. Deer trotted 50 yards when 3rd shot dropped it. Zero blood from where it stood. Lungs are destroyed. The bullet did its job but I like a blood trail. Cow elk. Shot at it once at 200 yards. I swear I hit this cow. Standing broadside and I have a good rest. At my shot other elk jump up and they all bunch up so no chance for a follow up. Had snow on the ground and could not find any evidence of a hit. Searched for over 4 hours and not one drop of blood. Even went back the next day and searched again. If the cow was anything like my son's buck deer it's laying dead and I couldn't find it. Won't use them again in think heavy cover. Barnes usually gives me a pass thru and two holes for blood to come out of, and a lot bigger exit hole. I know others have had good luck, good for them, just my experience and my choice not to use them again in thick heavy cover
Had the same thing happen on a couple antelope with the hh version. Antelope did die but when gutting it looked like bullet didn’t start to expand until through the first lung. I think the hht fixes the issue I had.
Sheltowee
Well-known member
I've internally debated whether all-coppers are better suited for breaking down bone structure rather than punching holes in squishy organs. My standard aiming point is just behind the shoulder but I'm considering moving forward and up to break the scapula or lower to center punch the heart.
buffybr
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I've shot and like both Barnes and Hammer bullets. They are the only hunting bullets that I use in my .300 Wby and .375 RUM.
std7mag
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It takes years.
But the original Barnes X came out in the early 80's if I recall correctly. So they would have had enough time.
Addicting
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My experience as well and what the ballistic gel showed when shoved into a roadkill chest cavity.
Addicting
Well-known member
Not all coppers, the LRX I use now will liquidate internal organs without hitting a rib. It will leave a quarter to half dollar sized exit and blood trail. Each manufacturer’s composite of copper is different and so are the results.
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Elktrack
Well-known member
What are you shooting in the 375?
std7mag
Well-known member
The Hammer or Cutting Edge will work fine if not going through heavy bone.
They are both designed to go in about 3", then the petals open and shear off, radiating outwards.
Essentially turning one bullet into 5, or 7.
But I've shot through the front leg bone with a 115gr, 25 caliber and 140gr & 168gr 7mm Berger VLD bullets.
While breaking the bone, they still did a lot of internal damage!
With the lighter weight bullets, I did notice that they didn't penetrate quite as deep.
Deer still died within 20 yards.
