Tradewind
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I'm curious. How many bear encounters have you had
Grizzly charge = lessons learned
- Thread starter MT Bound
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I'm curious. How many bear encounters have you had
belly-deep
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I read a study on bear charges once. Think the effectiveness of spray was way over 90% in repelling attacks.
But firearms were still above 70%, with rifles being noticeably more effective than handguns.
So the whole "guns aren't effective" argument doesn't really fly. I'd gladly drop the hammer during a bear charge knowing the effective rate was over 70%. And I'd be willing to bet that the only thing keeping guns from being as effective as spray is the fact that they are harder to use and people carry them in bear country who aren't very familiar with shooting them.
That said, I carry spray at all time when hunting. I'd prefer to go non lethal if possible. But many times the wind is blowing too hard (and when hunting most of the time you are moving into the wind). Also, I don't know if bear spray works in single digits, and I'm sure as hell not going to find out when a bear is charging.
But firearms were still above 70%, with rifles being noticeably more effective than handguns.
So the whole "guns aren't effective" argument doesn't really fly. I'd gladly drop the hammer during a bear charge knowing the effective rate was over 70%. And I'd be willing to bet that the only thing keeping guns from being as effective as spray is the fact that they are harder to use and people carry them in bear country who aren't very familiar with shooting them.
That said, I carry spray at all time when hunting. I'd prefer to go non lethal if possible. But many times the wind is blowing too hard (and when hunting most of the time you are moving into the wind). Also, I don't know if bear spray works in single digits, and I'm sure as hell not going to find out when a bear is charging.
Good info; I'm reckoning on 'cooking' would include rehydrating Mountain House meals, given the smell of the food, as opposed to taking raw ingredients and getting a pan frying etc?
Appreciate the story and advice. This is the second time in a few days that I heard of guys trying to look big that backfired. Both times it was a sow with cubs.
Granted it's a small sample size, but in both cases had you backed out the way you came immediately, might have avoided the confrontation. I was always told to act big and make noise. Apparently not the ideal thing to do with a sow with cubs.
Granted it's a small sample size, but in both cases had you backed out the way you came immediately, might have avoided the confrontation. I was always told to act big and make noise. Apparently not the ideal thing to do with a sow with cubs.
Western Traveler1
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If we want to hunt where we live it's gonna be in grizzly country. I've always done my best to just hunt and be aware, but seems it is happening more and more.
Tents? Not often but sometimes... I agree I'm not cooking in mine that's for sure...
http://fwp.mt.gov/mtoutdoors/HTML/articles/2012/Grizzlyattack.htm#.WbKe0a2ZNE4
Tradewind
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Pretty much what i was thinking. It appears drawing - and "shooting" with your bear spray canister isn't any easier than discharging a pistol. At least for this guy:
http://time.com/4929466/i-could-hear-bones-crunching-man-shares-photos-after-grizzly-bear-attack/
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rammac
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Not if you read the study that is the basis for that falshood and review the way the author classified the bear's attitude. Simply put, most of the incidents where the report's author claims that bear spray worked successfully were situations in which the bear wasn't charging. In a true bear charge the gun is your best bet.
Elkhunter24
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thanks for sharing and glad you made it back safe!
Straight Arrow
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Not true. The discussion regarding bear spray versus gun has been ensuing for years. Nearly all sources rate bear spray as more effective. I have not seen studies or articles differentiating between a "real bear charge" vs a false one (bluff charge). Most bear encounters involve hikers or archery hunters. Who wants to carry a rifle bow hunting? One can shoot bear spray ten times more quickly than unsnapping, unholstering, and firing a pistol (likely with not the optimum of accuracy ... and who wants a wounded bear running around?) Bear spray weighs twenty times less than even a small handgun and holster.
Don't take my word for it; there are numerous articles discussing this very issue. Check them out. We all love our guns, but when it comes to mitigating an encounter with a bear unless you are bear hunting and you intend to kill the bear, the bear spray is the best deterrent option. Incidentally, as in the article, typically it's the hunting partner or hiking partner who saves the day dispensing bear spray to ward off the attack or the bluff charge.
belly-deep
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FWIW, it seems like most government employees who spend a lot of time in bear country carry both firearm and spray, or as they call it, "lethal" and "non-lethal" bear protection.
Regardless of which you carry, you should know how to use it and carry it in a way you can get to it. I've been amazed at some of the over complicated holster designs I've seen carried by guys, might look kinda cool but all the straps and other crap isn't going to help you get the gun out when the SHTF, neither will carrying it inside a pack which many people told me they did. I happily carried spray when I hunted in grizzly country and if I did again I would probably carry spray and a handgun with the spray being my first option every time.
Although bear spray is certainly the right tool in the right situation, it has a major fault. Most people who are attacked by bears are attacked because they startled the bear. their strongest sense, is their sense of smell.
Often by this logic, when you startle a bear it's because it can't smell you. If a bear cannot smell you it is because the wind is in your face. You might as well throw the can at the bear 50% of the time in places like the Beartooth and he Rocky Mountain front. The wind is always blowing. Half the time it's in your face.
Often by this logic, when you startle a bear it's because it can't smell you. If a bear cannot smell you it is because the wind is in your face. You might as well throw the can at the bear 50% of the time in places like the Beartooth and he Rocky Mountain front. The wind is always blowing. Half the time it's in your face.
Straight Arrow
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The firearms are for self-protection against Bundy-wannabe-militia types.
onpoint
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Great but sobering story.
I love and at the same time hate G Bears.
This guy, about 100 yards away, was on a carcass. Winded me, stood up for a look, then turned around and very purposefully put himself between his prize and me. Then, the move that spooked me - while facing away, he turned and looked back my way, hung his head and glared at me. I backed away and skeedaddled. Crappy photos - techno challenged....
+1 for the spray and revolver.....
I love and at the same time hate G Bears.
This guy, about 100 yards away, was on a carcass. Winded me, stood up for a look, then turned around and very purposefully put himself between his prize and me. Then, the move that spooked me - while facing away, he turned and looked back my way, hung his head and glared at me. I backed away and skeedaddled. Crappy photos - techno challenged....
+1 for the spray and revolver.....
MThuntr
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you'll find that is only the case in Alaska and a few Forest/BLM Rangers...otherwise guns are not allowed
rammac
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I always chuckle when I hear some "expert" claim his knowledge came from a magazine article. Magazine editors are notorious for their lack of objectivity. I get my information from the sources; research papers, federal regulations, etc.
The study that most people are referring to when they claim that bear spray is more effective is "Efficacy of Bear Deterrent Spray in Alaska" that was published in The Journal of Wildlife Management, it is the study that I referred to when I stated that the bear's attitude was part of the data used to describe the event.
When all is said and done I ask myself why, if bear spray is so effective, does the USDA Handbook for the Alaska Region (FSH 6709.11 – health and safety code handbook chapter 50 - employee safety, security, and health) mandate that
The truth is that when you read these reports and handbooks you have to recognize that they are saying that neither is going to be 100% effective and that you need to be able to recognize the charactoristics of a bear that is actually attacking vs. a bear that is just curious or that you've simply crossed paths with. And even when you use a firearm you need to be aware of the limitations of the gun, the ammo, and the shooter (you). In my case I'll always use spray if the situation allows it but I'm not about to risk my life if it looks like I've come across a bear that is actually attacking me.
The study that most people are referring to when they claim that bear spray is more effective is "Efficacy of Bear Deterrent Spray in Alaska" that was published in The Journal of Wildlife Management, it is the study that I referred to when I stated that the bear's attitude was part of the data used to describe the event.
When all is said and done I ask myself why, if bear spray is so effective, does the USDA Handbook for the Alaska Region (FSH 6709.11 – health and safety code handbook chapter 50 - employee safety, security, and health) mandate that
Even the study I mentioned above states that
The truth is that when you read these reports and handbooks you have to recognize that they are saying that neither is going to be 100% effective and that you need to be able to recognize the charactoristics of a bear that is actually attacking vs. a bear that is just curious or that you've simply crossed paths with. And even when you use a firearm you need to be aware of the limitations of the gun, the ammo, and the shooter (you). In my case I'll always use spray if the situation allows it but I'm not about to risk my life if it looks like I've come across a bear that is actually attacking me.
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rammac
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Kinda. While forest service personnel aren't normally allowed to carry firearms, in accordance with USDA regulations, all forest services are authorized to issue firearms to their personnel if it's felt that it is necessary, not just in Alaska.
belly-deep
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Biologists in Montana carry firearms
Straight Arrow
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hmmm ... I wonder if the role of the biologist in the forest is the same as the role of the hunter / recreationist.
