Got a problem and considering hanging up this handloading thing

[antelopedundee]

Does your seater die crimp as well? If so have you checked to make sure it's not crimping too soon?

I think it would be highly unlikely that a 7 mag seater die would crimp as you would be limited to bullets with a cannelure. The way he describes setting it would not give any crimping.

 

[shoots-straight]

Don't think the press going bad was random. After those first 500 rounds I realized that my seating die was installed wrong (I screwed them in until they hit the ram, and then backed off 1/4-1/2 turn..

The two different presses might be a different distance from crimping your brass on the bullet.
19. BULLET SEATING (PART 1)
Thread the seater die a few turns into the press. Put a case in the shell holder and lower the press handle, running the ram with the case to the top of the press stroke. Turn the die body down until it stops. The crimp shoulder in the die is now pressing against the top of the case mouth. Back the die out one turn, raising the crimp shoulder above the case mouth. Secure the die in position with the die lock ring.

We use to put a nickle between the top of the case holder and the die at full extension. I say you check the case length and the seating die.

 

[TX_Eric]

I think it would be highly unlikely that a 7 mag seater die would crimp as you would be limited to bullets with a cannelure. The way he describes setting it would not give any crimping.

All of my Redding seater dies have the capability to crimp, including the ones for my 7 mag. You can turn it out enough that it wont, but if he has the die turned in to far it will crimp and could be happening before the bullet is fully seated, leading to the shavings.

 

[shootbrownelk]

RCBS seater dies also crimp. Adjust according to directions.

 

[antelopedundee]

All of my Redding seater dies have the capability to crimp, including the ones for my 7 mag. You can turn it out enough that it wont, but if he has the die turned in to far it will crimp and could be happening before the bullet is fully seated, leading to the shavings.

Frankly, I always have my seat die/s set so that it's short of touching the shell holder by a full turn or thickness of a nickel. Seems like he adjusts his the same way from the description he gave. I assume that he didn't re-adjust them at his friend's place. I'll check my dies since in all honesty I never paid attention to the crimp feature if it's there.

 

[antelopedundee]

All of my Redding seater dies have the capability to crimp, including the ones for my 7 mag. You can turn it out enough that it wont, but if he has the die turned in to far it will crimp and could be happening before the bullet is fully seated, leading to the shavings.

The bullet should be almost fully seated at about the time the crimp is applied so the shaved section should be maybe a mm or so. I used to use a heavy profile crimp [Redding die] on .357 mag ammo but I always did it separately. There was at times little brass shavings, but IIRC those came from the case mouth.

He said initially that the case necks bulged which would be what you'd expect if you tried to crimp a bullet that doesn't have a cannelure.

 

[fattybinz]

Update:

Came home with my buddy's hornady dies. Seated a few bullets...still shavings. Following my friend's suggestion I then tried something else...He suggest I take some fine steel wool and smooth the inside of the case neck where I had chamfered. I didn't have steel wool so I took the little sharp edge of of my caliper and ran it along the inside of the case mouth to debur it. Bullets seated noticeably smoother and no shavings! I pulled the bullets and with light shining on them you could see barcode-looking marks made by the case mouth but running my nail along the top of it I couldn't feel an edge like I could on the pulled shaved bullets.

Also interesting is I took some cases that I prepped a while ago the way I always do...trimmed and chamfered (without deburring just on the outside of the case mouth, not the inside)...and no shavings.

I'm wondering if deburring the inside of the case neck is just a band-aid and isn't the real problem though. I say this because:

a) I loaded 500+ rounds chamfering the same exact way...chamfering with only deburring the outside after trimming...not deburring the inside of the case mouth....without a problem
b) my friend prepped 10 cases, chamfering all of them. He loaded 5 in his press with my dies and they were perfect. I took the other 5 home and loaded them, and shavings.
c) I took new brass, resided just the neck, and did not chamfer them. Got less shavings...but some still there. If the problem was just with my chamfering tool or the way I was chamfering then new un-chamferred brass would have no shavings.

This is the chamfering tool I use. Maybe I should get a different one and try?

 

[cahunter805]

Seems as though you have tried everything but a new press.
Have you fired the 5 your friend loaded in his press? If so did they shoot like the original load(.8MOA)?
I VLD chamfer all my cases on the inside neck just slightly using the Redding VLD tool.

 

[Mallardsx2]

I have the same issue with my new RCBS press and RCBS dies.

Getting some minute shavings from 168 gr. nosler ballistic hunting tips.

I was full length re-sizing and everything so it confuses me why this would be happening.

It doesn't really matter as I do not reload for long range. I reload for affordability and fun. Not too ocd on my end +- .1 grain...I live with it.

If I can hit a pie plate at 300 yards im happy. For 90% of the hunting I do the shots are under 100 yards.

 

[antelopedundee]

Update:

Came home with my buddy's hornady dies. Seated a few bullets...still shavings. Following my friend's suggestion I then tried something else...He suggest I take some fine steel wool and smooth the inside of the case neck where I had chamfered. I didn't have steel wool so I took the little sharp edge of of my caliper and ran it along the inside of the case mouth to debur it. Bullets seated noticeably smoother and no shavings! I pulled the bullets and with light shining on them you could see barcode-looking marks made by the case mouth but running my nail along the top of it I couldn't feel an edge like I could on the pulled shaved bullets.

Also interesting is I took some cases that I prepped a while ago the way I always do...trimmed and chamfered (without deburring just on the outside of the case mouth, not the inside)...and no shavings.

I'm wondering if deburring the inside of the case neck is just a band-aid and isn't the real problem though. I say this because:

a) I loaded 500+ rounds chamfering the same exact way...chamfering with only deburring the outside after trimming...not deburring the inside of the case mouth....without a problem
b) my friend prepped 10 cases, chamfering all of them. He loaded 5 in his press with my dies and they were perfect. I took the other 5 home and loaded them, and shavings.
c) I took new brass, resided just the neck, and did not chamfer them. Got less shavings...but some still there. If the problem was just with my chamfering tool or the way I was chamfering then new un-chamferred brass would have no shavings.

This is the chamfering tool I use. Maybe I should get a different one and try?

I use one like this. It takes the burr off of the inside and the outside of the case mouth after trimming. I call it a rocket. Look around on eBay or Amazon. Deburr both the inside and outside of the mouth just enough to get rid of the burr and no need to put a knife edge on it.

 

[fattybinz]

I use one like this. It takes the burr off of the inside and the outside of the case mouth after trimming. I call it a rocket. Look around on eBay or Amazon. Deburr both the inside and outside of the mouth just enough to get rid of the burr and no need to put a knife edge on it.

How does it deburr the inside?

 

[cahunter805]

Fatty
I think you’re confusing deburr with chamfer. You only need to barely chamfer the inside of the case neck. Don’t cut it very deep at all. Just barely break the inside edge. Then debur the outside to remove any edges or leftover from trimming. The outside doesn’t need any chamfer at all.

 

[antelopedundee]

How does it deburr the inside?

Firstly, I "borrowed" the pic from an eBay seller. The tapered front end deburrs the inside of the case mouth; the tail end deburrs the outside. I usually do both. No reason to put a bevel on the inside esp. if using boattail bullets. Even flat base bullets have a small radius on the edges.

 

[cahunter805]

I’d use a tool like this. You can remove it from the handle and install on a trim center if you have one.

 

[std7mag]

I also hate to ask...
Did you mic the diameter of the bullets your having issues with.

Sorry to hear about issues with Lee press. I own 2 (4 hole turret, classic cast) and have not had an issue.
Lee does have a 2 yr replacement, limited lifetime warrenty.

 

[Mallardsx2]

For the record I de-bur with RCBS duburr electric station all of my brass and I brush the necks with a copper brush and a nylon brush. It removes ALL burs. And I still get some shavings. I blame it on the process of how I hold the bullet as I press the bullet into the case. It has to be perfectly in line with the case mouth.

 

[Addicting]

By chance did you have more than one shell holder for that round? Is it possible you switched them and then started having problems?

I have 2 #3 Hornady holders and one is not cut the same as the other. It is slightly off and cannot be used with the hand primer. If I switch them around the other does not does not line up exactly with the ram. Once I figured that out and bought a VDL chamfer tool all of my shaving went away.

 

[MVRK28]

I had a lot of issues with this before going to the K&M Neck tool. A lot of tools do the VLD cut, but the K&M tool does the best job hand down. You can set your depth and the built-in stops will make sure you are cutting consistently. Also, if you are looking at new presses I'd consider the Frankford Arsenal M-Press. It's a coaxial press so your case and die will float and self align. I'm using one for all bullet seating operations and when paired with a Whidden seating die I'm seeing runout as low as .0005" and no scraping.

 

[antelopedundee]

By chance did you have more than one shell holder for that round? Is it possible you switched them and then started having problems?

I have 2 #3 Hornady holders and one is not cut the same as the other. It is slightly off and cannot be used with the hand primer. If I switch them around the other does not does not line up exactly with the ram. Once I figured that out and bought a VDL chamfer tool all of my shaving went away.

I was sorta thinkin similarly that maybe a different shellholder was causing the case to enter the die slightly cocked. Maybe something like the Redding competition seater might be in order. You can pick up a new one off of eBay for $115 shipped for a 7 mm mag. Make sure the shellholder and its slot in the top of the press ram are clean and properly positioned. Is the fit between the press ram and the press sloppy or tight and properly aligned?

 

[fattybinz]

Update: I ended up just VLC chamfering and hoping for the best. Loaded up 15 rounds and shot them at 200 yards:





Soooo I guess I can say that the problem is solved lol. The second photo is upside down...that is why the groups look like they are to the right of target. I want to say that the VLD made the difference but I also realized that my tikka did not come free floated stock. So I sanded the stock down and got these results.