GOP congressman wants to remove 4 dams to save Idaho’s salmon

[SAJ-99]

Idaho Ground Water Association
Idaho water users
Eastern Idaho water rights coalition

In the article I read it sounds like $$$ will be going their way. GOP reps have come out against us because it doesn’t guarantee it will save the salmon. So i guess in the future, every proposal has to come will 100% certainty of intended result.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

In the article I read it sounds like $$$ will be going their way. GOP reps have come out against us because it doesn’t guarantee it will save the salmon. So i guess in the future, every proposal has to come will 100% certainty of intended result.

Yea but its money to fund new ways of doing the things they already do.

 

[Ben Sellers]

Yep, most of these type issues are decided on emotion not reason. Salmon may not be wolves but I suspect the same emotions will apply. I am affected by the “water wars” between Georgia, Alabama, and Florida so I understand how big of a deal this can be. All sides have legitimate and competing concerns. We need the salmon for biological and cultural reasons, but it’s not reasonable to expect all the farmers to become white water guides.

On the lighter side, I would like to coin the term water wolves for this issue.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Also atm I'm not on board or off board, but 33 billion is a lot of dinero on a project based on hope and in the process disrupting a lot of lives.

I found this paragraph funny.

Environmental groups would have to give up the tool that has given them the most leverage to force the region to try to save salmon: lawsuits alleging violations of federal environmental-protection laws. The groups are not happy about that, but are willing to give it a try.

 

[TheTone]

I’ll applaud Simpson for being willing to propose doing something big picture and especially something that goes against many views on fish recovery of his political party.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

And when it comes to federal money being kicked their way it is usually distributed 50/50 and all sorts of strings attached like (special enviromental studies) and most of them aren't gonna wanna put money from their budgets to do projects that they wouldn't of had to do in the first place. In the end the feds always benefit and show up at the end and put their stamp on it like they did this great thing. Look up the WIIN ACT.

 

[SAJ-99]

Yea but its money to fund new ways of doing the things they already do.

Farmer logic?

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Farmer logic?

Not even close. When you have any valid informative points to add ill respond accordingly. Enjoy your next baked potato tho some farmer with logic enough to grow things grew it for you.

 

[corndog1]

Has Oregon or Washington been able to stop the sea lions from devouring tons of salmon below Bonneville Dam? Surely this would play a role in any decisions.

 

[SAJ-99]

Not even close. When you have any valid informative points to add ill respond accordingly. Enjoy your next baked potato tho some farmer with logic enough to grow things grew it for you.

You seem sensitive. Save it. It wasn’t a hit job on farmers. To be against something because it is different is simply asinine. If the money still lets them get water, there is no reason to be against it. But that was your argument and I don’t see anyone else making it publicly. In fact, just the opposite.

“He is going to get pushback, but not from us,” said Darryll Olsen, board representative for the Columbia-Snake River Irrigators Association, which represents growers watering more than 90,000 acres of farmland from the Lower Snake River. “We are going to be supportive if he can get the Northwest delegation together.””

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

. If the money still lets them get water, there is no reason to be against it.

What money....? Say it costs 37 million whose gonna cover the costs that the feds don't cover? Do you even know what your talking about. The money isn't magic and its never fully funded. And these people still need to apply for grants to receive what money they do get for these projects. And whose paying up front for all the studies to write and get the grant?

And no offense to Darryll but 90,000 acres is half of some of the canal companies alone in places that use the snake. The Eastern Snake Plain Aquifer is most likely over a million acres. 2.1 million to be exact.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

@SAJ-99 i clearly stated im not on board or off board with this at the moment. But there is way more things involved than 4 dams and $33 billion. You seem to think that way and thats fine. Statements like farmer logic...? Prove what side your on and the extent of your research on the subject.

And again no offense to Darryll again but there is no way he or his people have been able to go thru this entire proposal and language to know how and who this is gonna affect.

 

[Irrelevant]

i'm not intimately familiar with washington's water rights administration except that i know they run prior appropriation. how strict their prior appropriation is and whether or not the state/district courts or the state agency adjudicates the rights i don't know

but i can see this turning into a big court battle between state rights as it pertains to adjudicated water rights protected by a state constitution and federal overreach that injures those water rights. a fight that would be hard to win for the feds i think. at least, if this proposal doesn't properly compensate water users, which it claims to i guess.

but even so, sometimes the only way to compensate a water user is with water, not money. it's very dangerous path to try and walk when you threaten water rights, and i do root for water rights, after all they are usually codified and called rights for a reason

that said i'm certainly rooting for the salmon, but when it comes to water rights it's hard to see anything stopping the lobbing of grenades

Whomever thought their water rights were impaired would have to prove so. And with the same amount of water flowing down the river that would be a very hard sell. Plus, there's this big ax swinging over all Western water law of the tribes equating fish rights and salmon to water. That's a much bigger issue to irritators than dam removal.

 

[Irrelevant]

Has Oregon or Washington been able to stop the sea lions from devouring tons of salmon below Bonneville Dam? Surely this would play a role in any decisions.

Yes, more of less. Though they've been more successful on the Willamette falls stocks.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

If the money still lets them get water, there is no reason to be against it.

If it was only this simple boy the world would be utopian! Sign me up! Thinking its this easy and simple is what is truly asinine.

 

[SAJ-99]

@SAJ-99 i clearly stated im not on board or off board with this at the moment. But there is way more things involved than 4 dams and $33 billion. You seem to think that way and thats fine. Statements like farmer logic...? Prove what side your on and the extent of your research on the subject.

And again no offense to Darryll again but there is no way he or his people have been able to go thru this entire proposal and language to know how and who this is gonna affect.

Stating you are neither for or against doesn’t mean that is true from what I see. You are finding a lot of reasons it won’t work. Im not saying you are wrong, but we need optimism in finding to solutions these days. I would like to see them come down, but realize it isn’t a simple thing. I think we can find common ground in saying that the devil is in the details.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Stating you are neither for or against doesn’t mean that is true from what I see. You are finding a lot of reasons it won’t work. Im not saying you are wrong, but we need optimism in finding to solutions these days. I would like to see them come down, but realize it isn’t a simple thing. I think we can find common ground in saying that the devil is in the details.

I absolutely agree...I am just stating the reasons I know are gonna be discussed in water meetings. This is not gonna go over well in most districts. Atleast Simpson opened the door tho for future reps to not be afraid to work with certain groups to try and come up with ideas and ways to appease the salmon and the water users. A GOP member working with the Idaho Conservation league is quite rare.

 

[Dougfirtree]

I've not heard the term "water groups" before. I'd be interested to know who comprises those groups.

I think it's those guys in the Duckboy cards...

 

[TOGIE]

Whomever thought their water rights were impaired would have to prove so. And with the same amount of water flowing down the river that would be a very hard sell. Plus, there's this big ax swinging over all Western water law of the tribes equating fish rights and salmon to water. That's a much bigger issue to irritators than dam removal.

well, I guess I have to think about this more tomorrow. Injury to your right certainly depends on the state you live and my state has certain definitions, of which timing is paramount, not just the total volume over whatever time period

 

[Irrelevant]

well, I guess I have to think about this more tomorrow. Injury to your right certainly depends on the state you live and my state has certain definitions, of which timing is paramount, not just the total volume over whatever time period

In WA having to extend your intake pipe may be a pain in the ass but it's not impairment.