Good for you Botswana

[Desk Pop]

@BuzzH

It is pretty clear everything you know about Africa is based on third-hand knowledge from the son of a guy who once lived there.

You've never stepped foot on the continent.

You've never seen a wild elephant.

You've never seen the results of African game management.

Yet, you're really quick to disparage everyone who has hunted there and claim to know their individual motives for doing so.

It is weird, narcissistic and uncalled for. You're an enemy to hunters and the hunting community as a whole.

If you can't derive a direct, individual benefit from something, you disparage it and everyone who does it.

Carry on, bud. You're the expert.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

Because Botswana is the only government being honest. They know the only reason foreign hunters go there to hunt is to take home a trophy. The rest is all bullshit. I'll give kudos to @deskpop, he left the whole elephant there. He's still an ass, but I respect that.

It's that simple.

And the German ban on “trophies” will actually hurt wildlife in Africa. Botswana is also being honest about that.

 

[BuzzH]

@BuzzH

It is pretty clear everything you know about Africa is based on third-hand knowledge from the son of a guy who once lived there.

You've never stepped foot on the continent.

You've never seen a wild elephant.

You've never seen the results of African game management.

Yet, you're really quick to disparage everyone who has hunted there and claim to know their individual motives for doing so.

It is weird, narcissistic and uncalled for. You're an enemy to hunters and the hunting community as a whole.

If you can't derive a direct, individual benefit from something, you disparage it and everyone who does it.

Carry on, bud. You're the expert.

My friends Dad, yeah, I'll take his word third hand over yours first hand:

Professor Johan T. du Toit | ZSL

Johan facilitates the success of the Institute of Zoology in advancing the science of zoology and informing the applied work of ZSL around the world.

www.zsl.org

 

[BuzzH]

@BuzzH

It is pretty clear everything you know about Africa is based on third-hand knowledge from the son of a guy who once lived there.

You've never stepped foot on the continent.

You've never seen a wild elephant.

You've never seen the results of African game management.

Yet, you're really quick to disparage everyone who has hunted there and claim to know their individual motives for doing so.

It is weird, narcissistic and uncalled for. You're an enemy to hunters and the hunting community as a whole.

If you can't derive a direct, individual benefit from something, you disparage it and everyone who does it.

Carry on, bud. You're the expert.

Trophy hunt there all you want, just be honest about it.

 

[ismith]

I want all of you to know that my daddy is stronger than your daddy.

My friends Dad, yeah, I'll take his word third hand over yours first hand:

Professor Johan T. du Toit | ZSL

Johan facilitates the success of the Institute of Zoology in advancing the science of zoology and informing the applied work of ZSL around the world.

www.zsl.org

Let’s be honest Buzz, your friends dad is an evil white colonist, not an African.

 

[Gus Chiggins]

Sounds like someone flunked a junior high book report about Hemingway’s Green Hills of Africa, and has hated African safaris ever since.

Green Hills of Africa - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

“Much of the narrative describes Hemingway's adventures hunting in East Africa, interspersed with ruminations about literature and authors. Generally the East African landscape Hemingway describes is in the region of Lake Manyara in Tanzania.

The book starts with Part 1 ("Pursuit and Conversation"), with Hemingway and an Austrian expatriate in conversation about American writers. Relations between the white hunters and native trackers are described, as well as Hemingway's jealousy of the other hunters. Part 2 ("Pursuit Remembered") presents a flashback of hunting in northern Tanzania with a description of the Rift Valley and descriptions of how to field dress prey. Hemingway kills a rhino, but his friend Karl kills a bigger one. The literary discussion moves to European writers such as Tolstoy, Flaubert, Stendhal, and Dostoevsky. In Part 3 ("Pursuit and Failure") the action returns to the present with Hemingway unlucky in hunting, unable to find a kudu he tracks. He moves to an untouched piece of country with the native trackers. In Part 4 ("Pursuit and Happiness") Hemingway and some of his trackers arrive at seemingly virgin country. There he kills a kudu bull with huge horns (52 inches). Back in the camp, he discovers that Karl killed a kudu with bigger horns. He is initially jealous of Karl’s luck, but overcomes this. The actions of his guides suggest that they respect him.”

 

[Chase0109]

It's awesome some African's are employed with peanut wages, all the neck meat they can eat, and a couple pairs of coveralls a year. Really helps out.

It's awesome to have your clothes washed and pressed everyday, being waited on hand and foot, knowing how great a life you're providing for the staff that does all the work on your trophy hunt.

Is what it is, but not my style. The work is 50% of the hunt for me and I don't want others doing it for me. In particular for slave wages.

I like to sleep at night.

I appreciate everything you do for Wyoming wildlife. Sometimes I agree with your opinions and sometimes I don’t. But on this topic, you are outside of your wheelhouse. One really cannot comprehend what a hunt is like over there until they actually do it.

Saying “hunting in Africa” is like to saying “hunting in North America”. painting with a very broad brush. Africa is a huge continent, with a lot of countries, and a very vast range of hunts and experiences.

Comparing a south African hunt to Mozambique, Zimbabwe, Tanzania, or Botswana is day and night different. About the only comparison is their on the same continent.

I did my first African hunt in a very remote camp in Mozambique last October. 12 hours by truck from the nearest city. Solar power in camp and extremely remote. It was probably the best Hunt I’ve ever been on. If I could hunt Africa every year I would give up hunting in North America. It’s just that much better over there.

I took a Cape Buffalo, a crocodile, and a few impala. I turned down opportunities on a few other animals as well. I did not go over there for a “trophy hunt“. I went for the experience, because I’ve always wanted to hunt Cape Buffalo, in a truly wild part of Africa.

I didn’t go specifically to help the locals, the wildlife, or anything like that. I went because I wanted to experience a classic tracking Buffalo Hunt in wild Africa. The benefit of meat and money to the locals, funding anti-poaching, and supporting wildlife conservation We’re great additional drivers to the trip. But not my sole focus. And that’s never been my sole focus even on Hunts in North America. I hunt because I enjoy the experience. I give away about 95% of all the game I kill every year. I enjoy hunting, harvesting, and butchering. I just don’t enjoy cooking. So I give it away to friends and family who do enjoy cooking wild game. No different when I’m in Africa and the locals eat the meat instead of me.

I am speaking specifically to the Hunt I did in a very remote camp. But until you see how the local villagers live you just can’t quite comprehend. The hunting concession helps employ them, builds infrastructure like the local school and dig Wells for the villages. The meat gets distributed to the villages and it’s one of the only sources of protein they have. It was very gratifying to kill my Buffalo on day 9 of a 10 day hunt after tracking buffalo 97 miles in extreme heat. Then seeing all the meat be cut and dried to help support the staff and their families through the off-season. My Hunt was the final one of the season.

I had such a great time and built great relationships with my PH, trackers, and game scout that I knew I needed to hunt with them again. I keep in touch with my pH regularly. I am booked with the outfitter for another Buffalo Hunt with the same crew October 2025.

I very much appreciated the friendships I made with my team on the hunt and I tipped them very well. Most clients do. They’re making more money working for the hunting camp than they would doing anything else. And just like guides in North America they seemed to love what they do. They’re very good at their job and they get paid well to do it.

I will be going on a tuskless cow elephant hunt in Zimbabwe this September. It is a hunt I’ve always wanted to do. It is a non-exportable Hunt and I’ll be taking absolutely nothing home. I am just doing it for the experience. And honestly, I don’t care if I get an elephant or not. Spending 10 days tracking herds of elephants, stalking in under 25 yards in thick bush and viewing each animal in the group looking for a tuskless cow (without a dependent calf), backing out and doing it all over again is really why I’ll be there. Pulling the trigger is just a very small part of the hunt for me. With this Hunt I’ll be supporting locals financially, the game department, anti-poaching units, and if I harvest supplying a lot of meat to locals as well. Additionally, the tuskless gene is present in about 3% of the elephant population. So by targeting tuskless cows, that helps keep the gene in check in the wild population. There are 2 tuskless cow tags on quota for the concession I will be hunting, which is 1,000,000 acres.

I could have booked a bull hunt instead. But I chose a tuskless cow because of the differences in the hunt. Hunting tuskless tends to be more high adrenaline in tighter quarters with larger groups of elephants. Cows are far more aggressive and more prone to charge. It can be more dangerous and overall more exciting, IMO. I could care less about the ivory or bringing a trophy home.

So my point is not all elephant hunting is about a trophy. For a lot of us its about the experience of the hunt. Not unlike hunting in NA.

Chase

 

[BuzzH]

Let’s be honest Buzz, your friends dad is an evil white colonist, not an African.

As are most of the PH's and owners of the fenced ranches they hunt.

 

[Trap]

Where did I say anyone was an asshole to have hunted there?

I guess if you go there I can't make that claim any longer.

Read my initial response to @bayoublaster7527, he's tired of antihunters calling trophy hunting, trophy hunting.

Well what is it when a hunter goes to Africa and brings back exactly no meat and only horns, hides and skulls to slap on the wall? Subsistence hunting? Putting food on the table?

Just be honest about it, nobody is buying the BS about helping the animal, feeding the villagers, etc. A lot of the meat on Safari's is sold to markets in town, not distributed to the locals living in grass huts at the local village.

Talk to some folks that live there.

When I hunt and dont eat coyotes and prairie dogs am I trophy hunting? Do you eat coyotes? Wait! are we both trophy hunters? Is the criteria for a "trophy" hunt solely not personally eating the meat?

 

[BuzzH]

I appreciate everything you do for Wyoming wildlife. Sometimes I agree with your opinions and sometimes I don’t. But on this topic, you are outside of your wheelhouse. One really cannot comprehend what a hunt is like over there until they actually do it.

Saying “hunting in Africa” is like to saying “hunting in North America”. painting with a very broad brush. Africa is a huge continent, with a lot of countries, and a very vast range of hunts and experiences.

Comparing a south African hunt to Mozambique, Zimbabwe, Tanzania, or Botswana is day and night different. About the only comparison is their on the same continent.

I did my first African hunt in a very remote camp in Mozambique last October. 12 hours by truck from the nearest city. Solar power in camp and extremely remote. It was probably the best Hunt I’ve ever been on. If I could hunt Africa every year I would give up hunting in North America. It’s just that much better over there.

I took a Cape Buffalo, a crocodile, and a few impala. I turned down opportunities on a few other animals as well. I did not go over there for a “trophy hunt“. I went for the experience, because I’ve always wanted to hunt Cape Buffalo, in a truly wild part of Africa.

I didn’t go specifically to help the locals, the wildlife, or anything like that. I went because I wanted to experience a classic tracking Buffalo Hunt in wild Africa. The benefit of meat and money to the locals, funding anti-poaching, and supporting wildlife conservation We’re great additional drivers to the trip. But not my sole focus. And that’s never been my sole focus even on Hunts in North America. I hunt because I enjoy the experience. I give away about 95% of all the game I kill every year. I enjoy hunting, harvesting, and butchering. I just don’t enjoy cooking. So I give it away to friends and family who do enjoy cooking wild game. No different when I’m in Africa and the locals eat the meat instead of me.

I am speaking specifically to the Hunt I did in a very remote camp. But until you see how the local villagers live you just can’t quite comprehend. The hunting concession helps employ them, builds infrastructure like the local school and dig Wells for the villages. The meat gets distributed to the villages and it’s one of the only sources of protein they have. It was very gratifying to kill my Buffalo on day 9 of a 10 day hunt after tracking buffalo 97 miles in extreme heat. Then seeing all the meat be cut and dried to help support the staff and their families through the off-season. My Hunt was the final one of the season.

I had such a great time and built great relationships with my PH, trackers, and game scout that I knew I needed to hunt with them again. I keep in touch with my pH regularly. I am booked with the outfitter for another Buffalo Hunt with the same crew October 2025.

I very much appreciated the friendships I made with my team on the hunt and I tipped them very well. Most clients do. They’re making more money working for the hunting camp than they would doing anything else. And just like guides in North America they seemed to love what they do. They’re very good at their job and they get paid well to do it.

I will be going on a tuskless cow elephant hunt in Zimbabwe this September. It is a hunt I’ve always wanted to do. It is a non-exportable Hunt and I’ll be taking absolutely nothing home. I am just doing it for the experience. And honestly, I don’t care if I get an elephant or not. Spending 10 days tracking herds of elephants, stalking in under 25 yards in thick bush and viewing each animal in the group looking for a tuskless cow (without a dependent calf), backing out and doing it all over again is really why I’ll be there. Pulling the trigger is just a very small part of the hunt for me. With this Hunt I’ll be supporting locals financially, the game department, anti-poaching units, and if I harvest supplying a lot of meat to locals as well. Additionally, the tuskless gene is present in about 3% of the elephant population. So by targeting tuskless cows, that helps keep the gene in check in the wild population. There are 2 tuskless cow tags on quota for the concession I will be hunting, which is 1,000,000 acres.

I could have booked a bull hunt instead. But I chose a tuskless cow because of the differences in the hunt. Hunting tuskless tends to be more high adrenaline in tighter quarters with larger groups of elephants. Cows are far more aggressive and more prone to charge. It can be more dangerous and overall more exciting, IMO. I could care less about the ivory or bringing a trophy home.

So my point is not all elephant hunting is about a trophy. For a lot of us its about the experience of the hunt. Not unlike hunting in NA.

Chase

Why is the tuskless cow bad for the gene pool? Got to justify smoking them for some legitimate reason I guess.

 

[BuzzH]

When I hunt and dont eat coyotes and prairie dogs am I trophy hunting? Do you eat coyotes? Wait! are we both trophy hunters? Is the criteria for a "trophy" hunt solely not personally eating the meat?

If you consider a coyote or prairie dog a trophy or you're just killing for the sake of killing.

Where did I say there is anything wrong with trophy hunting. Just be honest about it.

 

[Desk Pop]

Why is the tuskless cow bad for the gene pool? Got to justify smoking them for some legitimate region.

Because they use their tusks to root and eat. They are tools. God didn't give them tusks for oriental carving pieces or billiard balls. It is a rare genetic trait, but it is perpetuated by poaching because poachers won't shoot an elephant without tusks. So when poachers kill elephants with tusks and never kill elephants without tusks, more of the daddy elephants without tusks put their elephant privates into more of the mommy elephants without tusks, which makes more baby elephants with no tusks.

I've seen a tuskless female in Zambia with two or three young of different sizes, all tuskless.

They are also often bigger and more cantankerous than tusked elephants because some of their feeding requires tusks, so they have to learn how to let tusked elephants do the work, then bully them away and enjoy the spoils.

I'm sure the son of the nephew of the guy who knew the dude who had a brother that you hunt with that once won a conservation award told you all this.

 

[Forkyfinder]

If you consider a coyote or prairie dog a trophy or you're just killing for the sake of killing.

Where did I say there is anything wrong with trophy hunting. Just be honest about it.

cant wait to post some dead coyotes and p dogs in a thread wholly unrelated and gloat about my success - hopefully on a friends ranch.

Youll probably still miss the irony.

 

[BuzzH]

Because they use their tusks to root and eat. They are tools. God didn't give them tusks for oriental carving pieces or billiard balls. It is a rare genetic trait, but it is perpetuated by poaching because poachers won't shoot an elephant without tusks. So when poachers kill elephants with tusks and never kill elephants without tusks, more of the daddy elephants without tusks put their elephant privates into more of the mommy elephants without tusks, which makes more baby elephants with no tusks.

I've seen a tuskless female in Zambia with two or three young of different sizes, all tuskless.

They are also often bigger and more cantankerous than tusked elephants because some of their feeding requires tusks, so they have to learn how to let tusked elephants do the work, then bully them away and enjoy the spoils.

I'm sure the son of the nephew of the guy who knew the dude who had a brother that you hunt with that once won a conservation award told you all this.

Doesn't mean its a bad genetic trait...

 

[Nick87]

I appreciate everything you do for Wyoming wildlife. Sometimes I agree with your opinions and sometimes I don’t. But on this topic, you are outside of your wheelhouse. One really cannot comprehend what a hunt is like over there until they actually do it.

Saying “hunting in Africa” is like to saying “hunting in North America”. painting with a very broad brush. Africa is a huge continent, with a lot of countries, and a very vast range of hunts and experiences.

Comparing a south African hunt to Mozambique, Zimbabwe, Tanzania, or Botswana is day and night different. About the only comparison is their on the same continent.

I did my first African hunt in a very remote camp in Mozambique last October. 12 hours by truck from the nearest city. Solar power in camp and extremely remote. It was probably the best Hunt I’ve ever been on. If I could hunt Africa every year I would give up hunting in North America. It’s just that much better over there.

I took a Cape Buffalo, a crocodile, and a few impala. I turned down opportunities on a few other animals as well. I did not go over there for a “trophy hunt“. I went for the experience, because I’ve always wanted to hunt Cape Buffalo, in a truly wild part of Africa.

I didn’t go specifically to help the locals, the wildlife, or anything like that. I went because I wanted to experience a classic tracking Buffalo Hunt in wild Africa. The benefit of meat and money to the locals, funding anti-poaching, and supporting wildlife conservation We’re great additional drivers to the trip. But not my sole focus. And that’s never been my sole focus even on Hunts in North America. I hunt because I enjoy the experience. I give away about 95% of all the game I kill every year. I enjoy hunting, harvesting, and butchering. I just don’t enjoy cooking. So I give it away to friends and family who do enjoy cooking wild game. No different when I’m in Africa and the locals eat the meat instead of me.

I am speaking specifically to the Hunt I did in a very remote camp. But until you see how the local villagers live you just can’t quite comprehend. The hunting concession helps employ them, builds infrastructure like the local school and dig Wells for the villages. The meat gets distributed to the villages and it’s one of the only sources of protein they have. It was very gratifying to kill my Buffalo on day 9 of a 10 day hunt after tracking buffalo 97 miles in extreme heat. Then seeing all the meat be cut and dried to help support the staff and their families through the off-season. My Hunt was the final one of the season.

I had such a great time and built great relationships with my PH, trackers, and game scout that I knew I needed to hunt with them again. I keep in touch with my pH regularly. I am booked with the outfitter for another Buffalo Hunt with the same crew October 2025.

I very much appreciated the friendships I made with my team on the hunt and I tipped them very well. Most clients do. They’re making more money working for the hunting camp than they would doing anything else. And just like guides in North America they seemed to love what they do. They’re very good at their job and they get paid well to do it.

I will be going on a tuskless cow elephant hunt in Zimbabwe this September. It is a hunt I’ve always wanted to do. It is a non-exportable Hunt and I’ll be taking absolutely nothing home. I am just doing it for the experience. And honestly, I don’t care if I get an elephant or not. Spending 10 days tracking herds of elephants, stalking in under 25 yards in thick bush and viewing each animal in the group looking for a tuskless cow (without a dependent calf), backing out and doing it all over again is really why I’ll be there. Pulling the trigger is just a very small part of the hunt for me. With this Hunt I’ll be supporting locals financially, the game department, anti-poaching units, and if I harvest supplying a lot of meat to locals as well. Additionally, the tuskless gene is present in about 3% of the elephant population. So by targeting tuskless cows, that helps keep the gene in check in the wild population. There are 2 tuskless cow tags on quota for the concession I will be hunting, which is 1,000,000 acres.

I could have booked a bull hunt instead. But I chose a tuskless cow because of the differences in the hunt. Hunting tuskless tends to be more high adrenaline in tighter quarters with larger groups of elephants. Cows are far more aggressive and more prone to charge. It can be more dangerous and overall more exciting, IMO. I could care less about the ivory or bringing a trophy home.

So my point is not all elephant hunting is about a trophy. For a lot of us its about the experience of the hunt. Not unlike hunting in NA.

Chase

I've never been interested in Africa. Not gonna lie, you make that sound like an awfully good time though. Good luck on your trip.

 

[Desk Pop]

Doesn't mean its a bad genetic trait...

Yes, because I know most humans would like to be born without teeth also.

I'm sure if an eagle is born without talons it'll do quite well grabbing fish.

I've heard that when fish are born without fins they are quite content being stuck on the bottom of the ocean unable to swim .

Buzz, your ignorance combined with your inability to admit you know less than jack shit about a subject is beyond comical.

 

[BuzzH]

Yes, because I know most humans would like to be born without teeth also.

I'm sure if an eagle is born without talons it'll do quite well grabbing fish.

I've heard that when fish are born without fins they are quite content being stuck on the bottom of the ocean unable to swim .

Buzz, your ignorance combined with your inability to admit you know less than jack shit about a subject is beyond comical.

Sounds pretty common for a bad genetic trait.

Where did you get your wildlife degree from again?

 

[Desk Pop]

 

[BuzzH]

An elephant living 50 years without tusks, bad genetics?

Oh sure, sure.

 

[Desk Pop]

Stephen Hawking living to 76 years old, good genetics?

Oh sure, sure.