Maybe. Another wormhole to go down in the state of affairs here in Montana. mtmuley
Fire up the saws!
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BigHornRam
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All these plus high property taxes, and aging worn out sawmill equipment. Any new sawmill will be modern and highly automated.
A wormhole indeed. I’m just quoting what pyramid said.
I’m sure like most of life if you look back far enough, ie spotted owl decision, the downfall of the working class can. E attributed to many factors.
BuzzH
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Not entirely due to lack of timber, Pyramid was because they couldn't find anyone to work for $20 an hour combined with a lack of housing, markets, etc. BTW, my parents lived next door to Fred Johnson and his wife in Missoula.
Large Missoula County employer, Pyramid lumber, to close
One of Missoula County's last remaining lumber mills on Thursday evening announced its plans to close, ending a run that began in 1949.
missoulacurrent.com
“As everyone at Pyramid knows, the company has been hit very hard by a variety of circumstances that are outside of its control,” the company said in a statement. “Among other problems, labor shortages, lack of housing, unprecedented rising costs, plummeting lumber prices, and the cost of living in Western Montana have crippled Pyramid’s ability to operate.”
Fred Johnson and Oscar Mood founded what would become Pyramid Mountain Lumber in 1949. At the time, timber operations were a large part of the Missoula economy, though nearly all of them have since vanished in recent decades.
So why the Darby mill shutdown? Nevermind. I know enough folks I can talk to. mtmuleyNot entirely due to lack of timber, Pyramid was because they couldn't find anyone to work for $20 an hour combined with a lack of housing, markets, etc. BTW, my parents lived next door to Fred Johnson and his wife in Missoula.
Large Missoula County employer, Pyramid lumber, to close
One of Missoula County's last remaining lumber mills on Thursday evening announced its plans to close, ending a run that began in 1949.
“As everyone at Pyramid knows, the company has been hit very hard by a variety of circumstances that are outside of its control,” the company said in a statement. “Among other problems, labor shortages, lack of housing, unprecedented rising costs, plummeting lumber prices, and the cost of living in Western Montana have crippled Pyramid’s ability to operate.”
Fred Johnson and Oscar Mood founded what would become Pyramid Mountain Lumber in 1949. At the time, timber operations were a large part of the Missoula economy, though nearly all of them have since vanished in recent decades.
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Bonasababy
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Good to see some folks understand this has everything to do with industry desires and little hope of considering fish and wildlife needs. The industry works hard to portray things as a tree hugger vs habitat or fire issue....make no mistake they are really pushing for their interests.
It's ironic...very similar to the argument that any cutting of government jobs and budgets is good.
It's ironic...very similar to the argument that any cutting of government jobs and budgets is good.
Bonasababy
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Keep in mind the industry does not always have any intention of bidding on or buying sales. What they want is to see the market flooded so the price of what they do buy is driven down.
Bonasababy
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The too high initial planting density has a purpose...to help create higher quality wood. At least in many conifer plantings. Which often directly conflicts with high quality wildlife habitat.
BuzzH
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Yep. The expense is getting everything together to plant, hiring, contracting, and then getting them out in the field. The cost of planting a few too many trees is much cheaper than having to go back if you don't plant enough.
It does seem counter intuitive to have to go back and thin, but you just end up with a higher quality stand.
BuzzH
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I'm guessing similar things to what happened to Pyramid.
I hate seeing those smaller mills close.
shoots-straight
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The eye opener for me was this. Remember the Great NW log Haul?
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="
All those trucks the rolled through to the Mill?
Yea, that small mill consumed that supply up in less than 3 weeks. Automation was a major player. Great NW Log Haul
Bonasababy
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Higher quality timber...not habitat in most cases.
They plant at stocking levels much higher than they need for the final stand before harvest as much for growth and form concerns as covering expected mortality.
BuzzH
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Correct.
Done right, its possible to do 2 or 3 harvests in a stand of planted conifers. Think commercial thinning, select cut of some sort, and seed tree removal.
Wildabeest
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One thing I appreciate about the state lands I hunt in MT is that they are selectively thinned vs. clear cut. Makes for great habitat and even better hunting.
What's the "hit" rate where something of high interest/value is actually found? Just curious.
SaskHunter
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Clear cuts definitely has its place and are great habitat for wildlife. We do it plenty up here. It needs to be a multi-facet approach, select clear cuts within the forests and thinnings. They make for great hunting spots in the Northern forest and wildlife gets into them for a reason...
People go to school for this and spend their lives managing forests and their ecosystems. Works well for us.
People go to school for this and spend their lives managing forests and their ecosystems. Works well for us.
Bonasababy
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Don't disagree but done that way it's more like growing corn after you tore out the fencerows killed all the weeds and dumped a bunch of fertilizer to maximize the crop.
It can be different by location and species. For Norway (Red) Pine--although it easily grows big and can last over 200 years--the industry wants it all cut well before 100. Get a few thinnings and then they start over.
The same species can be managed much better for habitat. Plant at a lower stocking rate to start, use variable density (dirty words to timber interests) in planting, or hit it hard with precommercial variable density thinning. Then let it grow old instead of cutting it all just when it hits its teenage years and starting over. After the last thinning maybe run a fire underneath occasionally depending on goals.
Timber industry guys want trees planted much denser and more uniformly than would occur naturally in many cases for form purposes. Then thinnings are just enough to allow them a window to grow straight up and not out as much for another period, then thinned lightly again.
Nature doesn't work that way, sun doesnt hit the forest floor enough to promote diversity, etc. again its more like intensive farming.
Each location and the species present there varies of course.
There could be more cutting in places on NF land in my part of the world, some of that is not their doing at all though--markets just aren't there--which means if there is any increase in cutting it will have to stray from the considerations for more than just timber industry the FS normally has to consider--which means hunters and habitat won't be done any favors.
The national forests here are actually able to sell wood in places where other landowners can't another indication it's less them than other factors. Their sales sure do require a LOT more setup than other agencies or private land though--but if I won the lottery and wanted a place up against public I'd strongly prioritize being near NF land in the lakes states northern forests. So many other landowners are either managing the forest purely for industry purposes or on private land not cutting enough.
BigHornRam
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Montana town struggling since mill closed down<BR> A year later, many former employees still out of work
DARBY, Mont. -- Each morning for more than a decade, Harry Thorning got out of bed to drive his 18-wheeler loaded with Darby Lumber wood chips more than 250 miles south to Rexburg, Idaho. The long haul took him over four mountain passes. In bad weather, he'd chain up eight times.
www.deseret.com
"It's been almost a year since Darby Lumber announced the mill wouldn't reopen, about 16 months since the initial shutdown put almost 100 people out of work. But many of the former employees still feel the impact.
At the time, Robert Russell, Darby Lumber's chief executive officer, cited a poor timber market as a key reason for the closure. Lumber prices were at an all-time low, while timber sold on federal lands was becoming more scarce and costly. Compounding the situation was an economic crisis in Asian financial markets that hurt exports and left wood products stacked high in American lumber yards.
The mill went on the market but didn't sell. Eventually it was auctioned off, piece by piece."
BigHornRam
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Interesting stories from the early days of the Forest Service.
Ehlers first timber sale area in Lick Creek, from a couple years ago. A lot of time framed photo studies have taken place over the years of this low elevation mostly ponderosa pine forest.
Ehlers first timber sale area in Lick Creek, from a couple years ago. A lot of time framed photo studies have taken place over the years of this low elevation mostly ponderosa pine forest.
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I know but still don't like the clearcuts and yes I should have said mature timber in 50 years or so. Way diff. than the site index down South like you mentioned.
