Fire Forming brass - 280 Rem to 280 AI

[Millsworks]

That nickel plated brass will work just fine. I recommend annealing it before loading it up with was, bullets or cream of wheat projectile substitute.
It will perform fine as long as it gets annealing every 4-5 loadings.

 

[antelopedundee]

That nickel plated brass will work just fine. I recommend annealing it before loading it up with was, bullets or cream of wheat projectile substitute.
It will perform fine as long as it gets annealing every 4-5 loadings.

Doesn't the expansion difference between nickel and brass result in eventual flaking of the nickel?

 

[Don Fischer]

Why even worry about the nickle? I too have a preference for Winchester brass, inexpensive and easy to find! But I also think any brass will work, don't know about nickle though. Finding brass for a 280AI should be simple as pie. Get any brass for the 30-06, neck it down and go for it. Or you could get 25-06 brass and neck up or military brass and neck down again. I have never loaded for any AI cartridge but from what I gather the easiest way to do it is to simply fire, in your case, factory 280 ammo in your chamber. Then again I have also read that there is a bit of varaince in AI chamber's, some with head space a bit long. In that case what I've read is to seat the bullet into the lands enough to hold the case in place while firing. Sounds like a waste of a bunch of bullet's to me but then I'm cheap! Haven't a clue abut using cream f wheat to fire form. Not sure how you'd get the pressure up enough the reform the case?

I have read of guy's using cream of wheat in handgun's using fast powder's as space
filler. Seem's if that would work without blowing up the handgun, it wouldn't add significant pressure to fire form a case.

You didn't ask opinion's on the 280AI but gonna give you one anyway. What real difference do you hope to see with the AI over the standard 280? Something I did with a 7mm Rem Mag years ago was to set it up to shoot 160gr bullet's. I'd found that 140's shot tighter group's than my 160's and the only difference I could see was the 160gr went into the case quite a bit. Loaded up a dummy with a 160 seated to the base of the neck, as the 140 seated, and had a gunsmith redo the chamber to allow that to fit. End result was the rifle started shooting those 160's into 5/8" groups! another side was I was using N-205 powder and it increased my max load two grs over what my book called for. Pre-chronogrph days and no idea what velocity might have increased. As I recall the Speer manual called for 67grs N-205 and I got 69 grs without pressure signs. If I am to believe what I read and saw in that 7mm mag, moving the bullet farther out of the case increase's capacity. Or there is the Weatherby answer, free bore! It increase's case capacity without changing the brass shape.

 

[antelopedundee]

Why even worry about the nickle? I too have a preference for Winchester brass, inexpensive and easy to find! But I also think any brass will work, don't know about nickle though. Finding brass for a 280AI should be simple as pie. Get any brass for the 30-06, neck it down and go for it. Or you could get 25-06 brass and neck up or military brass and neck down again. I have never loaded for any AI cartridge but from what I gather the easiest way to do it is to simply fire, in your case, factory 280 ammo in your chamber. Then again I have also read that there is a bit of varaince in AI chamber's, some with head space a bit long. In that case what I've read is to seat the bullet into the lands enough to hold the case in place while firing. Sounds like a waste of a bunch of bullet's to me but then I'm cheap! Haven't a clue abut using cream f wheat to fire form. Not sure how you'd get the pressure up enough the reform the case?

I have read of guy's using cream of wheat in handgun's using fast powder's as space
filler. Seem's if that would work without blowing up the handgun, it wouldn't add significant pressure to fire form a case.

You didn't ask opinion's on the 280AI but gonna give you one anyway. What real difference do you hope to see with the AI over the standard 280? Something I did with a 7mm Rem Mag years ago was to set it up to shoot 160gr bullet's. I'd found that 140's shot tighter group's than my 160's and the only difference I could see was the 160gr went into the case quite a bit. Loaded up a dummy with a 160 seated to the base of the neck, as the 140 seated, and had a gunsmith redo the chamber to allow that to fit. End result was the rifle started shooting those 160's into 5/8" groups! another side was I was using N-205 powder and it increased my max load two grs over what my book called for. Pre-chronogrph days and no idea what velocity might have increased. As I recall the Speer manual called for 67grs N-205 and I got 69 grs without pressure signs. If I am to believe what I read and saw in that 7mm mag, moving the bullet farther out of the case increase's capacity. Or there is the Weatherby answer, free bore! It increase's case capacity without changing the brass shape.

.30-06 or .25-06 brass is .050 too short overall to be useful for forming .280AI cases. .270 Win brass is the proper length however cept it's .050 shorter to the shoulder. The cream of wheat is a filler so you use less powder. Google it. Also messy I'm told. You can also use a half case of Bullseye or similar fast pistol powder powder with a bit of tissue to keep it from spilling. Fire the round with the muzzle pointing up.

 

[std7mag]

Don,
In your case a "throater reamer" was used to remove the lands of the rifling to a specific distance to allow your 160gr to seat at the length you wanted.
And the process is called throating.

If you continued to use the 140gr bullets, you would have some freebore with those. Freebore being the jump (or distance traveled) before hitting the lands.

Weatherby (and others before him) didn't use freebore as a means to seat the bullet longer, thus increasing case capacity. He used it as an old trick to help keep pressures in check.
You'll find this in auto/semi auto, rolling blocks, break open, lever actions also.

 

[Millsworks]

Doesn't the expansion difference between nickel and brass result in eventual flaking of the nickel?

Yes, eventually. But it will last a good while if annealing is done properly.

 

[antelopedundee]

Don,
In your case a "throater reamer" was used to remove the lands of the rifling to a specific distance to allow your 160gr to seat at the length you wanted.
And the process is called throating.

If you continued to use the 140gr bullets, you would have some freebore with those. Freebore being the jump (or distance traveled) before hitting the lands.

Weatherby (and others before him) didn't use freebore as a means to seat the bullet longer, thus increasing case capacity. He used it as an old trick to help keep pressures in check.
You'll find this in auto/semi auto, rolling blocks, break open, lever actions also.

He did show too that his barrel shot 140 grainers and 160 grainers equally well.

 

[std7mag]

True.
But...
With a long freebore, concentricity is the name of the game.
And a long freebore can be finiky as to what bullets shoot well from it.
My Mauser in 284 Win has a freebore long enough that Sierra 160gr HPBT if touching the lands, barely is held in by the neck.
It shoots 140g and up cup & core bullets well enough. Doesn't like a VLD at all.
Even the 168 grainers have a sizable jump.

And as you stated, the headspace is different on the 280 vs the 30-06, and 25-06.

 

[antelopedundee]

True.
But...
With a long freebore, concentricity is the name of the game.
And a long freebore can be finiky as to what bullets shoot well from it.
My Mauser in 284 Win has a freebore long enough that Sierra 160gr HPBT if touching the lands, barely is held in by the neck.
It shoots 140g and up cup & core bullets well enough. Doesn't like a VLD at all.
Even the 168 grainers have a sizable jump.

And as you stated, the headspace is different on the 280 vs the 30-06, and 25-06.

Freebore in any barrel increases as the throat erodes from the hot gases generated by the burning powder. It may eventually shoot poorly even tho the lands and grooves are still decent.

 

[std7mag]

True, but when the freebore is long with a new barrel..

 

[ImBillT]

There’s nothing wrong with using 30-06 brass to fireform into 280AI. Being .050” short is not a big deal. When you size it down in your AI die, it will place the neck/shoulder junction in the correct place, and that’s what an AI headspaces on when fireforming. Loading the bullet long keep the case head against the bolt doesn’t actually work. The case moves forward when the firing pin strikes the primer and just pushes the bullet into the case a little deeper.

The a fast shotgun or pistol power with cream of wheat works just fine, but for safety’s sake, START VERY LIGHT. As in 10gr-ish. And work up a little until the shoulder forms well. Bullseye, Red Dot, Unique etc. will develope boat loads of pressure if you stick too much in there.

 

[Cody Richardson]

Yep I do it for 284 Winchester to 284 Shehane, I just jam 30 thou with a lower charge. In my competition guns, my fireform load is almost 2 grains lower than a full charge. But my fireform load will damn near shoot right with my match loads

 

[Brian in Montana]

After an extensive search for Peterson brass and coming up with none on the planet, I also emailed Graf and Sons and Peterson to ask if any would be available in the nearish future. (Graf litterally said they had no idea, and Peterson said they didn't know when 280 AI would be on the production schedule.). I went ahead and did a barrel break in and fire-formed some of the nickel-plated 280 Rem brass I had. Everything seemed to work very well. I plan to fire-form another 30 or so casings and start doing some load development.

 

[Brian in Montana]

Actually that rifle shot pretty well. It was a little over MOA even with the ammo I threw together with minimal prep and components I had laying around with no particular purpose - 139gn Interlocks and W760. And, of course, brass that didn't really fit the chamber.